44 replies to this topic

[N0ni]

Even if it's just preset HUDs (since having a slider or a text box for 0-255 might be asking alot for a start) with a simple checkbox i.e. 'Colorblind Mode' and it opens up the 3 most common forms with seperate checkboxes for the 3 seperate HUDs, i'd be ok with that. With the basics set from that, we can work on getting a slider or custom checkbox to accommodate everyone.

Just trying to think of it as a step by step process with minimal impact rather than lumping everything in at once and breaking something.

[Nemesis Duck]

Obviously we should be able to choose any colour for important displays where information is needed timely. Maybe they can somehow isolate that portion of code into a module on it's own and allow modding to that module only, even it only the reticule could be had it would be better than nothing.

[SeventhSL]

Got a mate who loves the game but can't play due to bright yellow lasers causing epileptic fits. He just needs to be able to change laser colours.

[kf envy]

Ruar, on 03 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'm not colorblind, but I like being able to change the HUD colors. For whatever reason I have a harder time paying attention to red items but blue keeps my focus.

Having new graphics that use the same color scheme as the rest of the HUD doesn't really help for various reasons. Graphics get lost in the background, existing colors can't be seen so more of them don't help, and it's just more things to distract during a fight.

I'd like to have a polite discussion about what PGI could change/add to make the game easier for those who are colorblind or just want the HUD to be easier to see.

What I've read in other threads indicate the following are the preferred solutions:

Color palette change- Having the ability to change to a new color palette for the HUD items. Preferably by allowing the player to change within the full range of the 0-255 color system. Less popular is having some preset colors that are just check boxes.

Armor readout changed to HTAL- Having the head, torsos, arms, and legs displayed as their own bars instead of a ragdoll with shading. This was standard on previous Mechwarrior games.


Is there anything else that will help? Would these two changes solve the problem?

we been asking for 5 years an all we get is "soon™" and "wanna buy a mech pack™"

I don't really thing PGI cares all that muchs about adding colorblinde support but more about farming peoples wallets an I bet we will see the same 2 things in MW5

[Xetelian]

I'm red/green color blind. There is a lot of information I just don't see. Setting the HUD up with different colors would be great.

I'm willing to give 'shapes' a try but if the shapes are all in the same colors I don't know what exactly they expect to change.

[Mole]

Spheroid, on 03 September 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Also the logic of mod banning needs to be addressed. Stability is a BS excuse, many, many people were using those sound mods with zero problems.

Were? As in past-tense? Has PGI now decided that the sound mods they previously said were okay are now illegal as well as a result of this instead of addressing the actual issue?

[JediPanther]

It needs to have color change options on different aspects of the hud. As much as possible. Choosing different colors for all the paperdoll for example. It goes green,yellow.orange and red now. Be able to make it colors you select. I also have issues with the color of ammo count and weapon type indicator. It looks yellow on light yellow so they are really hard to see if I have 250 or 350 of ammo left. able to change that also would be nice. Another option would be increase or decrease font size or even type of font.

One thing I do like is that clan get mostly a blue-green hud but IS gets a yellow on yellow hud. Is and clan should be able to go for a color or pick from some preset ones. I think most people can see the red damage indicator as red but a few might like it some other color. Just needs to contrast and not be too similar colors like tan and yellow.

Maybe put the cockpit monitor to use and have the option to use 'default' paperdoll or hital info on them. Make then functional to as how dcs uses their full hud in their simulators.

Edited by JediPanther, 03 September 2017 - 09:44 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Eaay hamfisted way to do it would be like how counterstrike does it. Pre-selected range of 5-8 "approved" colors that players can picl from.

For colorblind players, it'll be sufficient. For non colorblind folks, it'll just be a pretty thing. Like fallout's pipboy with its different colors.

It's all up to pgi whether they want to make this happen, or try to reinvent the wheel. Again.

[Mole]

Xetelian, on 03 September 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

I'm willing to give 'shapes' a try but if the shapes are all in the same colors I don't know what exactly they expect to change.

This is pretty much PGI showing that they don't understand the issue, if you ask me.

[Spheroid]

I was thinking about the problem at work. I believe a three or four color channel HTAL graphic could provide the necessary visual shapes.

Dithering is not only for light or dark blending as in newsprint comics, you can also dither chroma values. If you are difficient in one of the two colors that is cross hatched, the opposite hue will still evidence dithering.

I believe this two factor chroma contrast could also be introduced into reticle iconography where opposite hues outline each other. That could be done as a single scaleform graphic to satisfy two different type of color blindness simultaneously. Ideally chromatic contrast would occur at the same time tonal contrast does to provide two independent methods of visual separation.

This is what I was thinking. Someone who IS colorblind needs to take my examples and replace them with colors that actually work and superimpose them on a blank cockpit screenshot of terra therma or caustic or whatever the map with the worst visability is.

For types I am thinking

• one color skeletal with cross hatch
  
• two color bar
  
• two color bar with outline
  
• two color bar with outline and crosshatch

I did this graphic in haste, the actual crosshatch would be a contrasting hue not black. Feel free to edit it.

Edited by Spheroid, 03 September 2017 - 11:08 PM.

[CJ Daxion]

Spheroid, on 03 September 2017 - 10:37 PM, said:

I was thinking about the problem at work. I believe a three or four color channel HTAL graphic could provide the necessary visual shapes.

Dithering is not only for light or dark blending as in newsprint comics, you can also dither chroma values. If you are difficient in one of the two colors that is cross hatched, the opposite hue will still evidence dithering.

I believe this two factor chroma contrast could also be introduced into reticle iconography where opposite hues outline each other. That could be done as a single scaleform graphic to satisfy two different type of color blindness simultaneously.

This is what I was thinking. Someone who IS colorblind needs to take my examples and replace them with colors that actually work and superimpose them on a blank cockpit screenshot of terra therma or caustic or whatever the map with the worst visability is.

For types I am thinking

• one color skeletal with cross hatch
  
• two color bar
  
• two color bar with outline
  
• two color bar with outline with crosshatch

I did this graphic in haste, the actually crosshatch would be a contrasting hue not black. Feel free to edit it.

You know i was thinking about it after you posted..

I honestly think something like that.. BUT, make it two rectangle boxes stacked on top of each other, with bars for Head, RT,CT,LT, LA, RA, LL, RL Then a space, and RRT, RCT, RLT

Basically make anything above the mid line armor, and then bellow, structure. I guess you could color them, or just grey scale, But if you made the bars completely vanish, Or have an outline, that has nothing in it, like an empty rectangle.

Sorta like the JJ bar, or Heat bar.. that is easy to see right? the lower the bar, the less armor,, and once gets to mid line armor is gone. Bellow when it lowers means less structure. It could even show structure damage, by lowering the lower bar, before the armor is gone, like open back armor, or MASC damage, or over heat damage ect..

Edited by CJ Daxion, 03 September 2017 - 10:46 PM.

[Spheroid]

@Daxion: In previous titles the structure bar has been a smaller companion bar adjacent to the armor one. You could also integrate structure into the armor column but I am of the opinion that is too cluttered.

[Spheroid]

Four color checkerboard dither.

Perhaps blue outline, box/checker color, inner blue border followed by separate or same top and bottom fill.
Modify these as needed. I need feedback.

Edited by Spheroid, 04 September 2017 - 09:40 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

FireStoat, on 03 September 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

I like the spirit of keeping things polite, and I agree that while the Cryengine might restrict the programmers from offering a palette or slider option for the player to select a color scheme, that the Devs could (and should) come up with 2-3 additional color blind friendly UI choices, especially with the target reticle appearance shift when it's placed on a target.

The solution involving Shapes seems like a lot of extra work that is unnecessary.

It doesn't matter what shape the crosshairs end up in if the user can't see the color to begin with.

And we've already seen a user mod that got us different colors, so there's that. It just got (according to the rules) shot down immediately, but we know it's absolutely doable.

And if PGI can't duplicate it, they should be getting the guy who did it inside of a week to help them out.

[Lily from animove]

Brain Cancer, on 04 September 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what shape the crosshairs end up in if the user can't see the color to begin with.

And we've already seen a user mod that got us different colors, so there's that. It just got (according to the rules) shot down immediately, but we know it's absolutely doable.

And if PGI can't duplicate it, they should be getting the guy who did it inside of a week to help them out.

you basically need to gather the worst color blind people and create a solution for them, lessser colorblind people should also be able to work with that.

[kesmai]

The hud and the game engine are decoupled. That means hud and game graphics are not in the same engine, but share the same instance.
Exactly this is were cheat/hacks like H3lios inject themselves. I hope you understand that PGI is VERY protective of all code interlinked at that hud/gamengine connection.
Nonetheless their reaction to the posted 'modded' solution for cb's was not clever, as they could easily give 'allowed mods' internal hashes for verification.
Sad to see that a company that came quite far over the last 5 years is still unable to adapt intelligent solutions.
Their proposed solution to use 'shapes' instead of greyscale imho means they don't even understand what colorblind means.

Edited by kesmai, 05 September 2017 - 12:35 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

List of games with Colour blind support from 2013 so we have a better idea how not interested PGI is about their game.

https://pcgamingwiki...mode&value=true

[Ruar]

Kind of sad this thread only has two pages while the mean one has 12.

[Maker L106]

Well if anything I've learned from this forum... we need less posts here and more to harass Russ on twitter.

Sadface

[Spheroid]

What if reticles and target boxes were composed of a three color double element line?

Red, Yellow, Red above yellow, blue, yellow.

There is red, green blindness and yellow/blue blindness. If you stack two opposing colors adjacent or vertically adjacent in the diagonal there should be some degree of chroma contrast in one of the dimensions regardless of the specific type of color blindness.

I avoided green since that apparently will not work for deuteranopia

Protanopia
Protanopes are more likely to confuse:-
1. Black with many shades of red
2. Dark brown with dark green, dark orange and dark red
2. Some blues with some reds, purples and dark pinks
3. Mid-greens with some oranges
Deuteranopes
Deuteranopes are more likely to confuse:-
1. Mid-reds with mid-greens
2. Blue-greens with grey and mid-pinks
3. Bright greens with yellows
4. Pale pinks with light grey
5. Mid-reds with mid-brown
6. Light blues with lilac

Edited by Spheroid, 27 September 2017 - 10:34 AM.