16 replies to this topic

[John McHobo]

Please explain to me how critical chance, damage and maschineguns work, because I had the following situation:

A Nova fires at me with 4 light MGs. It breaches armor, hitting the right side of my mech containing:
2x jump jets, 7,5 health each
4x srm4 7,5 health each
1x double heat sink 7,5 health
3x empty slots

The mech has 7 reinforced casing nodes, so 7% reduced receiving crit chance.
A light MG does 0,7 damage/sec

The moment the armor is breached all 4 SRM4s are destroyed...
How do 4 MGs (2,4dam/sec) deal at least 30 points of damage (4x7,5)?
And this is not the first time I noticed my equipment disintegrate after a hit, and its not just MGs doing it.

Is this intended behaviour or is the math behind it not working out?
Can someone explain to me how these crits work?

[N0ni]

What i've noticed is that Light Machineguns have a better chance of critting weapons than normal machineguns and heavy.

Sort of like a crit to damage spectrum where Lights are at the far end of critting and heavy MGs are at the far end of damage while normal MGs are balanced inbetween.

To put it in english:

Light MGs - will most likely insta-crit, best possible RNG rolls

Normal MGs - take a bit longer to crit, but does better damage

Heavy MGs - Mostly going to do high damage, poorest RNG crit rolls

[MCY Xale]

Comes down to crit damage multipliers. LMGs have a 17x (I think it was?) multiplier on crits. MGs have a reduced multiplier, and HMGs a smaller one still.

The sheer number of rounds means that you will be taking a significant number of Crits each second, and the massive crit multiplier means each crit actually does significant amounts of damage despite the low base.

[Deathlike]

Crit damage only matters when external armor is depleted and internal armor is being shot at.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Here's the math:

-Basic weapons have a 25% chance to cause 1 crit, a 14% chance to cause 2 crits, and a 3% chance to cause 3 crits.
-MGs have a 31% chance to cause 1 crit, a 17% chance to cause 2 crits, and a 4% chance to cause 3 crits. This is per bullet
-The LMG gets a 14x damage multiplier when its dealing crits. This means that it can do 0.98 damage per crit per bullet.

With a single second of fire from 4 LMGs that is 40 different shots at once. That would be 12.4 dealing one crit, 6.8 dealing 2 crits, and 1.6 dealing 3 crits. In total it would be 30.8 crits per second on average, each of them dealing 0.98 damage.

So on average 4 LMGs does slightly over 30 crit damage per second, you have a total of 52.5 component health in your side, and only 30 health in SRMs. Its also possible that the enemy could get lucky and crit much more than the exact rates state, but on average every component would be ripped out of that side torso in 1.75 seconds.

Note that LMGs have the highest crit damage multipliers of all machine guns types to make up for the lower damage against armor, so they are especially deadly against opponents that are open.

[Mcgral18]

14x 0.07

~1 damage per Crit
10 rounds a second per MG

52% chance To Crit at least 0.98 damage

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 04 September 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

14x 0.07

~1 damage per Crit
10 rounds a second per MG

52% chance To Crit at least 0.98 damage

At least we're not talking about 6MG Spiders these days... just 8MG Mist Lynxes.

That's what I get for not playing MWO for a bit.

[Davegt27]

we need a video like this on heat

[Curccu]

Deathlike, on 04 September 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

At least we're not talking about 6MG Spiders these days... just 8MG Mist Lynxes.

That's what I get for not playing MWO for a bit.

and "soon" it's 12MG Piranhas oh that future crying

[kesmai]

Curccu, on 05 September 2017 - 02:05 AM, said:

and "soon" it's 12MG Piranhas oh that future crying

I want.
Since ever.
PGI please.
Release the Piranha. You can nerf mg crits a bit latorz.
#Piranhaorbust
I swear i will instantly buy the biggest mechpack available when there's a piranha in it.

[John McHobo]

Quote

Here's the math:

Thanks a lot for that. So it is really over factor 10 on those crits, that explains it.
This also downgrades the HMG massively for me. Or is the multiplier chosen in a way that makes it deal the same crit damage as the LMG in the end?
And where do you guys find those crit chances? Because I find nothing in the weapon descriptions.

[MechaBattler]

I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the damage bonus the LMG gets. We got an increased in TTK thanks to structure skills and especially on mechs with structure quirks. But the LMG is making short work of that and bringing things back down.

I dunno I haven't been playing that much lately or at all the last two weeks. But if enough people complain consistently about the same thing. Inevitably they'll do something to it. I just hope its not to the point of uselessness.

[Mcgral18]

MechaBattler, on 05 September 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

I just hope its not to the point of uselessness.

It's the PGI way
RIP

[MechaBattler]

It's not just PGI though. I noticed that in a lot of online pvp games. Something rises up as the top build or spec or whatever. And the company's first reaction is to ignore it. Then begrudgingly agree that it's out of line and will see a fix at a later date. Then maliciously hammer it out of existence. Or my personal favorite, make excuses for why it's clearly not the game mechanic that is broken, it's the players. : o

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

John McHobo, on 05 September 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Thanks a lot for that. So it is really over factor 10 on those crits, that explains it.
This also downgrades the HMG massively for me. Or is the multiplier chosen in a way that makes it deal the same crit damage as the LMG in the end?
And where do you guys find those crit chances? Because I find nothing in the weapon descriptions.

Online mechlab: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

LMGs have the highest crit damage while HMGs have the lowest and MGs are in the middle. This is the main reason no one uses the other mgs much apart from the lower range and lower ammo in hmgs. Really LMGs are the best option in general.

[Trissila]

MechaBattler, on 05 September 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

I dunno I haven't been playing that much lately or at all the last two weeks. But if enough people complain consistently about the same thing. Inevitably they'll do something to it. I just hope its not to the point of uselessness.

Oh, it'll be to the point of useless. MGs aren't allowed to be anything more than noob traps, and potatoes that leave themselves open will always have a louder voice than the light mech playerbase. See further examples at: people complaining about light mechs "dominating" with that laughably low usage rate.

Dakota1000, on 05 September 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

Online mechlab: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

LMGs have the highest crit damage while HMGs have the lowest and MGs are in the middle. This is the main reason no one uses the other mgs much apart from the lower range and lower ammo in hmgs. Really LMGs are the best option in general.

Supporting evidence. Nobody uses MGs and HMGs because they're complete and total garbage except for the one meme gimmick of stripping exposed components, so LMGs are the only ones that get used.

[John McHobo]

Quote

LMGs have the highest crit damage while HMGs have the lowest and MGs are in the middle. This is the main reason no one uses the other mgs much apart from the lower range and lower ammo in hmgs. Really LMGs are the best option in general.

Makes perfect sense.
High crit chance + longer range +no damage +lower tonnage VS low crit chance + shorter range +no damage*2 + low tonnage
I still have MGs and HMGs on some mechs, time to fix that.

If someone from PGI reads this: Please consider fixing this imbalance by BUFFING the weaker MGs, not by nerfing the useful one. Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase.