32 replies to this topic

[Zureal]

I just thought of this, so doint beat me to much over it XD lol. But I am not referring to melee combat when it comes to hands. Instead I would like to get your opinion.

Lets say I command a lanc or mercs, and that I am on a "Smash and Grab" mission to get some stuff.

Wouldn't it be great if the mission was alot easier if you could just "pick up" said stuff? Instead of having to get it on some truck first and them escorting it back to your DS. This happens all the time on the tabletop and I am hoping that this could be somehow translated to MWO.

This would give a actual use other than combat for having hands on a mech, also, it would open up tactical options for how to complete a mission. And finally, if the opponents blow up the mech that is holding said stuff, and if they have a mech with hands as well they could them try to take it back, and it would turn into a kind of "tug o war" situation. Ware the mercs have to bring the stuff back intact. and the diffenders have to save the stuff, or if that becomes impossible destroy said stuff after a certain point.

This I think would be a great game mechanic and give a certain amount of urgency and even force players to think more about strategy and tactics,

I hope I got my idea across correctly. What do you all think?

[Hayden]

I actually think this sounds like a fun idea... I don't know if they'd implement it, the only problem I could foresee is if your 'mech didn't have hands. That said... that Jenner does have a winch in the concept drawings

[Zureal]

Hayden, on 18 December 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

I actually think this sounds like a fun idea... I don't know if they'd implement it, the only problem I could foresee is if your 'mech didn't have hands. That said... that Jenner does have a winch in the concept drawings

Well thats ware you will have to take the time to load the cargo into a truck and then escort the truck back to your ship, hence why hands would be a huge advantage.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Smash and grab was something we did in TT, of course, we all piloted Stock Mechs with hands, which was probably a good thing. Then again, I doubt that the Powers That Be would have sent a lance of no-hand Mechs on a smash and grab without support...then again..military minds..who knows

[VYCanis]

if no handed mechs feel left out of the smashin and grabban. one way of handling it believably... don't allow them to pick up any cargo, but allow handed mechs to attach a small amount of cargo to them.

could be handled along the lines of

no hands- 1 piece of cargo. (held WITH MAGNETS! on their backs or under nose depending on mech) only with help by another mech
1 hand- 1 piece of cargo held, another can be attached with help
2 hands- 2 pieces of cargo (1 for each hand) or 1 large piece held with both hands. and another can be attached.

Carrying cargo slows down top speed and degrades maneuverability. Can't shoot with an occupied arm until you drop that object.

So if a smash and grab is in process involving a jenner, dragon and atlas. dragon might start by grabbing some loot and plonking right onto the jenner's back then grab some cargo and plonk it onto the atlas' back. Grab one more thing to carry in its arm, and the atlas grabs a big ole container with both hands, then they run off back to their dropship and hope to every diety between them and terra that they don't start getting shot before they get there and that any boxes that get hit should that happen aren't the ones with ammo or fuel.

(edit) and if there is melee, then trying to melee with cargo should involve smashing it into your target. Which would be hilarious if you just tried to slam down 3 tons of LRM ammo down on someone's head. There won't be much left of either of you.

Edited by VYCanis, 18 December 2011 - 11:06 PM.

[Zureal]

VYCanis, on 18 December 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

if no handed mechs feel left out of the smashin and grabban. one way of handling it believably... don't allow them to pick up any cargo, but allow handed mechs to attach a small amount of cargo to them.

could be handled along the lines of

no hands- 1 piece of cargo. (held WITH MAGNETS! on their backs or under nose depending on mech) only with help by another mech
1 hand- 1 piece of cargo held, another can be attached with help
2 hands- 2 pieces of cargo (1 for each hand) or 1 large piece held with both hands. and another can be attached.

Agree that IF, and I mean IF a mech already has CARGO NETS on it that this can be done, also that both maneuverability and speed should be degraded only IF said cargo equals or ecceds ... lets say 20% of a mechs total tonnage.

VYCanis, on 18 December 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

Carrying cargo slows down top speed and degrades maneuverability. Can't shoot with an occupied arm until you drop that object.

Agreed, Though I would add that you cant use torso weapons if you are holding said cargo to your chest ether, though if said cargo was strapped to your back via cargo nets then it would not matter.

VYCanis, on 18 December 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

So if a smash and grab is in process involving a jenner, dragon and atlas. dragon might start by grabbing some loot and plonking right onto the jenner's back then grab some cargo and plonk it onto the atlas' back. Grab one more thing to carry in its arm, and the atlas grabs a big ole container with both hands, then they run off back to their dropship and hope to every diety between them and terra that they don't start getting shot before they get there and that any boxes that get hit should that happen aren't the ones with ammo or fuel.

This would make sens yes, Though I doint think a one handed mech should be able to handle cargo, unless said cargo had some kind of mech scale handholds, or it was picking up a small container, or person.

VYCanis, on 18 December 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

(edit) and if there is melee, then trying to melee with cargo should involve smashing it into your target. Which would be hilarious if you just tried to slam down 3 tons of LRM ammo down on someone's head. There won't be much left of either of you.

This would indeed be vary funny XD lol OR 3 tons of inferno gel mmm... barbecue mech ribs lol

But I would also like to point out that I believe cargo containers should have something like at least 2 points of armor, and there should also be "armored" containers that have more armor. that way a anything you are carrying wont automatically be destroyed by the smallest weapons fire or some such.

Edited by Zureal, 18 December 2011 - 11:20 PM.

[Vile Joker]

I think I remember reading somewhere that mechs were equiped with a kind of net/grapple/something or other to be able to pull salvaged mechs off the battlefield. Or something like that. Mechs without hands could easily have another mech toss stuff into their "cargo net" if it exists. If not, the mechs with no hands are left to guard the hauler's flank while he/she gets the cargo out of dodge.

[CaveMan]

Hands have more uses than just grabbing cargo, too.

A 'Mech with hands can be used to rapidly construct or tear down barricades (who needs an engineering vehicle when your walking tank can pull double duty as a crane?), knock holes in walls, clear debris from a road, uproot trees, etc.

The IndustrialMech came first, after all.

[Phades]

Good thoughts here, would be nice to see them implemented.

[Zureal]

CaveMan, on 18 December 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

Hands have more uses than just grabbing cargo, too.

A 'Mech with hands can be used to rapidly construct or tear down barricades (who needs an engineering vehicle when your walking tank can pull double duty as a crane?), knock holes in walls, clear debris from a road, uproot trees, etc.

The IndustrialMech came first, after all.

All true as well, but in regards to MWO I doint think we will see most of those, but I would like to see my thoughts implemented.

Though I do like the thought that if my King Crab ran out of ammo and the LL was dead that I could rip a tree out of the ground and use it as a makeshift club We all know how dame limited the King Crab is on ammo, freaking sux

Vile Joker, on 18 December 2011 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think I remember reading somewhere that mechs were equiped with a kind of net/grapple/something or other to be able to pull salvaged mechs off the battlefield. Or something like that. Mechs without hands could easily have another mech toss stuff into their "cargo net" if it exists.

Having read all the novels and rule books, said cargo nets are something that has to be added to a mech, they doint come with them built in.
Another use that I just remembered would be that you could scale cliffs and other vertical things if you have 2 hands. That would be vary useful in certain environments, like a city, cliff face, or whatnot.
Hands would also let you recover salvage easier, you could drag a dead mech back to your DS rather than have to wait for a salvage crew, sure you will damage it more on the way, but if you are being shot at... yea, some salvage is better than no salvage.
You could also "recover" people if you have hands to, if you had a mission that required you to "acquire" a certain someone.

Edited by Zureal, 19 December 2011 - 12:07 AM.

[VYCanis]

yeah magnets would be a bit of a stretch...cargo nets, definitely better

If anything they could be a really cheap piece of kit that you can sling on to most any mech at next to no cost. The only reason not to take it on most missions could be that most missions would just get them torn to shreds and wasted. Also maybe if they are substantial enough they block off ammo dumping?

would be a risky thing in some respects to use though, a cargo net could get shredded by just about any weapons that hit the area and your precious cargo would now be falling 3 stories. But thats the price for not having hands.

Edited by VYCanis, 19 December 2011 - 12:23 AM.

[Zureal]

VYCanis, on 19 December 2011 - 12:20 AM, said:

yeah magnets would be a bit of a stretch...cargo nets, definitely better

If anything they could be a really cheap piece of kit that you can sling on to most any mech at next to no cost. The only reason not to take it on most missions could be that most missions would just get them torn to shreds and wasted. Also maybe if they are substantial enough they block off ammo dumping?

Yes, if your cargo net is slung across your back, then yes, you wouldent be able to ammo dump, as that happens through your back, according to the novels, fluff, and rule books anyways. Though if your cargo net is on the front then this dosent apply, just doint shoot your chest weapons XD

VYCanis, on 19 December 2011 - 12:20 AM, said:

would be a risky thing in some respects to use though, a cargo net could get shredded by just about any weapons that hit the area and your precious cargo would now be falling 3 stories. But thats the price for not having hands.

True, but then again, this is part of why you would have to think of tactics, how to protect the mech that has the cargo and sum such. To me at least, this will make MWO more tactically real and force players to have to use there brains, instead of the old, "rwar! enemy! must run to and kill!" approach that many games have.

Also, this makes you think of how you are going to escape with said cargo, what rout to take that will help you bring the cargo back intact, and all kinds of considerations bedsides.

EDIT: another thought just occured to me, though i doubt it will be implemented.

What if you just headcaped a mech, lets say a rare and valuable Black Knight. How to get it back with the least amount of damage? Well lets also say you have 2 mechs with 2 hands, one grabs the legs, the other the shoulders and they can bring it back that way withought having to drag it the whole way

Edited by Zureal, 19 December 2011 - 12:33 AM.

[VYCanis]

that would be a nightmare to coordinate between 2 players unfortunately. However, i do like the idea of manually towing salvage. What if any mech can slowly drag his own tonnage or lighter?

like say you back up to a wreck that is your own weight or lighter, if you back up close enough you can take a few seconds to deploy some winch cables and then drag the wreck at some fraction of your speed depending on how heavy it is. Reversing detaches the cables.

Obviously not something you do during combat. But if your team is off chasing 1 last straggler, you aren't in a hurry, and nobody is looking....

[Zureal]

VYCanis, on 19 December 2011 - 12:53 AM, said:

that would be a nightmare to coordinate between 2 players unfortunately. However, i do like the idea of manually towing salvage. What if any mech can slowly drag his own tonnage or lighter?

Obviously not something you do during combat. But if your team is off chasing 1 last straggler, you aren't in a hurry, and nobody is looking....

Hmm... I agree with the first part, thats why i said it wouldn't be implemented, would be a pain in the *** XD lol. Yea, draging something your tonnage or less is compleatly plausible. But the second part i think is off.

VYCanis, on 19 December 2011 - 12:53 AM, said:

like say you back up to a wreck that is your own weight or lighter, if you back up close enough you can take a few seconds to deploy some winch cables and then drag the wreck at some fraction of your speed depending on how heavy it is. Reversing detaches the cables.

No, mechs do not come preequiped with winch cables. From the way it is described in the novels/fluff/rule books. Its simply a matter of grabbing a part of the mech, usualy a leg or arm, assuming of course you have a hand or hands to do this with, and draging your salvage home. BUT, if you equip your mech with some some sort of winch cables before hand then this should not be a problem. Just as long as it shows that , depending on the terrain you are dragging the salvage over, there is some damage to your salvage. There is no way you could drag something without at least some damage occurring.

[RSF Angel]

Quote

Mech Hands and a use for them in game other than melee...

Flippin' the bird.
The bird while in mid jump.
The bird when you blow someones leg off and they're staring at you helplessly.
The bird, while your torso is turned 180 and you're escaping some slow Assault mechs.

[Zureal]

RSF_Angel, on 19 December 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

Flippin' the bird.
The bird while in mid jump.
The bird when you blow someones leg off and they're staring at you helplessly.
The bird, while your torso is turned 180 and you're escaping some slow Assault mechs.

you know.... I want this in the game

[VYCanis]

sure them winches could be something you mount on. Reason i advocated the winch dragging route over actually using your arms to drag is the question of how would you deal with torso twisting while dragging? So deploying some cables from a mech's butt cheeks seemed like a more game friendly solution since it would allow you to twist your torso. but yeah they could be a relatively cheap piece of custom gear.

sure dragging a wreck should probably rough it up some.

[CeeKay Boques]

I really want to throw a car at someone.

http://i690.photobuc...s/th_helmet.gif

Edited by Technoviking, 19 December 2011 - 01:25 AM.

[Xhaleon]

Ahem... What OP described was basically Capture the Flag, which is a necessary component of any good game.

[CeeKay Boques]

What?! the OP??? No, no, i want to rip off an Osris arm and throw it through your cockpit!

*Take Osiris Arm*

Yes.

Throw Arm?

Yes.