28 replies to this topic

[Anjian]

Some intense high level play. Also gives you an idea what Beacon Rush is all about. Lately I am exclusively playing this mode only.

[Anjian]

Exilyth, on 06 September 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

If HG hasn't sued them yet, they can't be that much of a competition to MWO.

Good luck if they wanted to try.

[Lily from animove]

Ancile? LOL I spent that few gold I got just for robot slots yet, the massive grind to get gold is, well massive especially when you advance to ranks where people bring their pew pew lasers and just by equipment outplay you so you don't get gold from the match itself, which then simply makes yo not able anymore to get further gold outside the daily 3 wins and the missions. So that lancelot ancile thing is already 6500 gold to get before you can enter this kind of gameplay.

[Anjian]

Its not a grind if you are willing to spend. Its not a grind either if you are willing to stay in the safety of the lower leagues either. Believe me, once you start to get to the upper silver and gold and beyond it gets pretty brutal. If you are a casual gamer, its better to stick to the lower leagues, although its the game that will determine your league ranking eventually through your performance. I personally do not try intentionally to move up the league ranks and let things settle organically. There are high league people that are deliberately "tanking" their stats so they can go down to lower leagues. You are going to meet these tankers sooner or later, one of the most unfortunate things in the game.

I got like six to seven Lancelots and four anciles, mainly from spinning roulettes. Ancilots, the nickname for Ancille + Lancelots, makes up my main forces, if not the game's longest running meta. I got Lancelots with differing weapons combinations.

There is no pew pew lasers in War Robots. Gekkos are the closest thing to lasers in the game, and they are an expensive premium weapon. They are the equivalent of extreme range heavy lasers in MWO, but with a longer duration, self aim locking and no heat. It is not however considered a championship or meta weapon due to its low DPS compared to other weapons. Since it is a light point weapon, the Lancelot cannot mount it, and is generally not seen used except as snipers for heavy and mediums with light mounts (Leo, Natasha, Patton).

For Lancelot, you got one heavy point, and two medium points. The heavy point players put either an Ancile or a Thunder, which is the most effective silver weapon in the game. The Thunder is so effective its used right up to championship play. The Thunder is the direct equivalent to the LBX in BT. The other weapons require either the grind in workshop points or gold.

Considered to be the most effective short ranged weapon in the game, is the Taran. It is like a machine gun shooting plasma. The sort of equivalent to it in MWO are large or heavy pulses, but what it is pulsing is more like small PPCs. The DPS is very high but range is only short, up to 350m. Once in a while it depletes, and enters a short cool down weapon where it reloads. The weapon makes the best sweet sound I ever heard of a "gun" in the game.

The other weapon is the Orkan. Basically a short ranged rocket launcher, up to 300m. Its the game's equivalent to SRMs. When it launches it fires in a stream though. The back doors of the weapon would open to release exhaust flames. It has a tremendously high alpha damage but there is a cool down time after that. When it is recharging, and you can still fire the weapon before its full cool down cycle is reached, but damage is reduced since you have less rockets that are fired.

So players either go with Ancille + Tarans, Thunder + Orkans, Thunder + Tarans, Ancille + Orkans.

Cheaper weapon alternative would be the Punisher Mark IIs, which is like 500 meter heavy machine guns or RACs. With a Thunder, it can be an effective budget Lancelot in the lower leagues. Punishers are cheap silver weapons, but they can get really deadly if seriously upgraded.

You can also work with the Tulumbas that comes with the Lancelot. These are the BT equivalent to MRMs, but with a nasty splash effect.

Now if you don't need a Lancelot, you can always use a Leo, which is considered a budget Lancelot alternative. What it lacks in shields, it makes up with sheer HP, higher base movement speed, and three light points with a heavy point, can produce more damage output than two medium points and a heavy point, using the right weapons. I am still surprised at what a Leo can go even on the gold leagues.

Griffins are silver bots that are good right up to championship play, and Leo right up to the upper gold leagues.

The most effective combinations for Griffins are:

Russian Death Button
2 Tulumbas, 2 Pins

Death Button
2 Orkans, 2 Pinatas

Plasma Death Button
2 Tarans, 2 Magnums

Lead Hose
2 Punisher Mk 2, 2 Punishers
2 Molots Mk 2, 2 Molots

For Leos without spending too much money

Thunder Mag
1 Thunder, 3 Magnums

Ancille + Mag
1 Ancille, 3 Mags

Thunder Pinatas
1 Thunder, 3 Pinatas

Thunder Pins
1 Thunder, 3 Pins

Edited by Anjian, 12 September 2017 - 02:15 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

Its not a grind if you are willing to spend. Its not a grind either if you are willing to stay in the safety of the lower leagues either. Believe me, once you start to get to the upper silver and gold and beyond it gets pretty brutal. If you are a casual gamer, its better to stick to the lower leagues, although its the game that will determine your league ranking eventually through your performance. I personally do not try intentionally to move up the league ranks and let things settle organically. There are high league people that are deliberately "tanking" their stats so they can go down to lower leagues. You are going to meet these tankers sooner or later, one of the most unfortunate things in the game.

I got like six to seven Lancelots and four anciles, mainly from spinning roulettes. Ancilots, the nickname for Ancille + Lancelots, makes up my main forces, if not the game's longest running meta. I got Lancelots with differing weapons combinations.

There is no pew pew lasers in War Robots. Gekkos are the closest thing to lasers in the game, and they are an expensive premium weapon. They are the equivalent of extreme range heavy lasers in MWO, but with a longer duration, self aim locking and no heat. It is not however considered a championship or meta weapon due to its low DPS compared to other weapons. Since it is a light point weapon, the Lancelot cannot mount it, and is generally not seen used except as snipers for heavy and mediums with light mounts (Leo, Natasha, Patton).

For Lancelot, you got one heavy point, and two medium points. The heavy point players put either an Ancile or a Thunder, which is the most effective silver weapon in the game. The Thunder is so effective its used right up to championship play. The Thunder is the direct equivalent to the LBX in BT. The other weapons require either the grind in workshop points or gold.

Considered to be the most effective short ranged weapon in the game, is the Taran. It is like a machine gun shooting plasma. The sort of equivalent to it in MWO are large or heavy pulses, but what it is pulsing is more like small PPCs. The DPS is very high but range is only short, up to 350m. Once in a while it depletes, and enters a short cool down weapon where it reloads. The weapon makes the best sweet sound I ever heard of a "gun" in the game.

The other weapon is the Orkan. Basically a short ranged rocket launcher, up to 300m. Its the game's equivalent to SRMs. When it launches it fires in a stream though. The back doors of the weapon would open to release exhaust flames. It has a tremendously high alpha damage but there is a cool down time after that. When it is recharging, and you can still fire the weapon before its full cool down cycle is reached, but damage is reduced since you have less rockets that are fired.

So players either go with Ancille + Tarans, Thunder + Orkans, Thunder + Tarans, Ancille + Orkans.

Cheaper weapon alternative would be the Punisher Mark IIs, which is like 500 meter heavy machine guns or RACs. With a Thunder, it can be an effective budget Lancelot in the lower leagues. Punishers are cheap silver weapons, but they can get really deadly if seriously upgraded.

You can also work with the Tulumbas that comes with the Lancelot. These are the BT equivalent to MRMs, but with a nasty splash effect.

Now if you don't need a Lancelot, you can always use a Leo, which is considered a budget Lancelot alternative. What it lacks in shields, it makes up with sheer HP, higher base movement speed, and three light points with a heavy point, can produce more damage output than two medium points and a heavy point, using the right weapons. I am still surprised at what a Leo can go even on the gold leagues.

Griffins are silver bots that are good right up to championship play, and Leo right up to the upper gold leagues.

The most effective combinations for Griffins are:

Russian Death Button
2 Tulumbas, 2 Pins

Death Button
2 Orkans, 2 Pinatas

Plasma Death Button
2 Tarans, 2 Magnums

Lead Hose
2 Punisher Mk 2, 2 Punishers
2 Molots Mk 2, 2 Molots

For Leos without spending too much money

Thunder Mag
1 Thunder, 3 Magnums

Ancille + Mag
1 Ancille, 3 Mags

Thunder Pinatas
1 Thunder, 3 Pinatas

Thunder Pins
1 Thunder, 3 Pins

tell me what you want but when my competitive state is blocked behind month of gamign to be able to buy the specific wepaons thats a grind and not much a point of makign a game interesting. Sticking to lower leagues, that already soudns like a bad gaming design idea when you motivate people to stay there.

So the game puts a way too high artificial equipment wall between veterans and beginners, which even in MWO isn't a fraction of that. But I think the worst part is just the one where weapons and mechs need DAYS to be upgraded, like want to be competitive, lol nope just wait a few weeks even if you have the silver. and that probably just to "necourage" paying money to speed this up. Without these artificial equipment walls the game would be a great one that could be enjoyable.


Also, how do you prevent ranking up? by playing bad intentionally? that sounds like even more unfun.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 September 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[Anjian]

A month of gaming does not do much. It does not do much either in games like World of Tanks, World of Warships and War Thunder. It does not do much in countless other games. All these games also divide people and equipment by tier, and many people still play in the lower tiers because somehow, the equipment levels are more fun. Like in War Thunder, I play in a lower tier where I have World War 2 tanks, instead of the upper tier where you have Vietnam era tanks.

Suppose you are willing to spend, you are not going to spend as much as many have in MWO because there isn't as many things to spend on.

I kept my league at silver and gold simply by not upgrading my bots past a certain level. I only put mine at level 7. I do own five slots though, and when I limited my upgrades to 6, I was at silver, and now at 7, I am at mid gold. Of course I play to win, I just don't want to be in the leagues where everyone has 12/12 bots and weapons, which is a huge time and money investment, one that I cannot afford since I have other games to pay, like MWO, WoWs, War Thunder, etc,. My original intention of playing War Robots was to have something to play when I travel, like using the hotel wifi or something. Somehow it gotten beyond that.

As I said, you can be competitive right up to the championship leagues using Griffins, where you just upgrade them, and with the relevant weapons described. Even champions that have the money to burn still often use Griffins. Even with my Lancelots, Leos and Griffins would take up at least 3 of 5 slots.

I am sorry but I think a game design that is trying to balance everything from beginner to champion in one flat level like MWO, is that one that's actually bad, as it can never be really properly balanced, leading to years of perpetual balancing and not making other content. Where vets have access to clubbing beginners (see FW), which causes much players to leave and the game's population shrinks. There is also no true end game, with a flat level design. The whole idea of layering players by skill and equipment to prevent players from clubbing or getting bored with too much wins, so that they will only face equals (theoretically) and can be constantly challenged. And they will be given a goal, no matter how grindy it is. Grind is actually a good thing --- it is the sticky for many players.

This game has respawns and despite the small maps, camping spawns are very little. Beacon Rush mode actually encourages you to spawn right in the midst of enemies, and everyone does it. This game allows complete premade squads 6 vs. 6, but even with premade squads, things are often not a stomp and they have a tough time with pugs. Why? Because more or less everyone fights a mix of their equals, slightly superiors and slightly inferiors. You have walls between the veterans and the noobs, the casual players and the big spenders.

Edited by Anjian, 12 September 2017 - 03:07 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

A month of gaming does not do much. It does not do much either in games like World of Tanks, World of Warships and War Thunder. It does not do much in countless other games. All these games also divide people and equipment by tier, and many people still play in the lower tiers because somehow, the equipment levels are more fun. Like in War Thunder, I play in a lower tier where I have World War 2 tanks, instead of the upper tier where you have Vietnam era tanks.

Equipment levels are not necessarily fun, some of the mosts successful games don't even have these. Thats why games like Counterstrike or Tf2 work without such a thign at all.
And hardly ANY of the games with equipment even differ this by MM, WR doesn't even do that it just sorts them out by performance which is then mostly based on equipment. But then most games are dividing by "levels" whicha are free of equipment related MM at all. The only reason WR can do that is the amount of players playing it makes them have enough of each bracket atm.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

Suppose you are willing to spend, you are not going to spend as much as many have in MWO because there isn't as many things to spend on.

may be that all of MWO is more to spent than all of WR, but I doubt it seeing the prices of WR, and WR has a fraction of stuff compared to MWO, so WB stuff is massively overpriced. And pay to compete is one of the worst mechanics a game can have.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

I kept my league at silver and gold simply by not upgrading my bots past a certain level. I only put mine at level 7. I do own five slots though, and when I limited my upgrades to 6, I was at silver, and now at 7, I am at mid gold. Of course I play to win, I just don't want to be in the leagues where everyone has 12/12 bots and weapons, which is a huge time and money investment, one that I cannot afford since I have other games to pay, like MWO, WoWs, War Thunder, etc,. My original intention of playing War Robots was to have something to play when I travel, like using the hotel wifi or something. Somehow it gotten beyond that.

may be, and I surely have no problem staying at a specific level of gameplay if I can not advance, thats how competition works, but when my competition level is limited by the game design because someoen thought, hey how about grind a few month first before youc na compete, then exactly this is one of the most beginners unfriendly setups by designs because it makes a beginner not able to even compete, and maybe never does given how the game keeps devloping and the beginner never able to reach the end equip. Good competition is made by skill a s afactor and not your ability to no Life grind equipment.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

As I said, you can be competitive right up to the championship leagues using Griffins, where you just upgrade them, and with the relevant weapons described. Even champions that have the money to burn still often use Griffins. Even with my Lancelots, Leos and Griffins would take up at least 3 of 5 slots.

how am I competitive in agriffin if it needs weeks to even just upgrade it (by the time the upgrades need), thats not even including the gathering of the money, Thats not competitive because the game forces me to work with inferior equipment by game design. And most iother equipment driven games are those where my eequipment comes from pve activities, not necessarily forcign you to play vs superior equipped people to get your equipment.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

I am sorry but I think a game design that is trying to balance everything from beginner to champion in one flat level like MWO, is that one that's actually bad,

So counterstrike is badly designed? it isn't. The only issue MWO has is that the WASD CTRL, SHIFT left and right click potatoes aren't able to handle the few more buttons MWO offers. But generally the System in MWO is rather competitive by skill as getting one mech proeprly equipped isn't a lot work. Especially not after the academy and it's bonus money was added ontop of the cadette boni.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

as it can never be really properly balanced, leading to years of perpetual balancing and not making other content. Where vets have access to clubbing beginners (see FW), which causes much players to leave and the game's population shrinks. There is also no true end game, with a flat level design. The whole idea of layering players by skill and equipment to prevent players from clubbing or getting bored with too much wins, so that they will only face equals (theoretically) and can be constantly challenged. And they will be given a goal, no matter how grindy it is. Grind is actually a good thing --- it is the sticky for many players.

balance is one think, but you cna never ever balance skill anyways you can just seperate skill, and that depends on a proper rating system whch MWO fails to deliver.

Anjian, on 12 September 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

This game has respawns and despite the small maps, camping spawns are very little. Beacon Rush mode actually encourages you to spawn right in the midst of enemies, and everyone does it. This game allows complete premade squads 6 vs. 6, but even with premade squads, things are often not a stomp and they have a tough time with pugs. Why? Because more or less everyone fights a mix of their equals, slightly superiors and slightly inferiors. You have walls between the veterans and the noobs, the casual players and the big spenders.

Maps aren't that small, given the mechs speed most of these maps are very similar to the old river city or forst colony by scale. And i saw multipe spawn campings already. And as said before the walls are just equipment not skill and its higher playerbase is what makes WR have an easier time for matchups. And thats mostly thanks to mobile games easy accessability otherwise it had probably worse matchups than MWO.

[Anjian]

Lily from animove, on 12 September 2017 - 04:45 AM, said:

Equipment levels are not necessarily fun, some of the mosts successful games don't even have these. Thats why games like Counterstrike or Tf2 work without such a thign at all.
And hardly ANY of the games with equipment even differ this by MM, WR doesn't even do that it just sorts them out by performance which is then mostly based on equipment. But then most games are dividing by "levels" whicha are free of equipment related MM at all. The only reason WR can do that is the amount of players playing it makes them have enough of each bracket atm.

But most if not the majority of the most successful games do have equipment levels, or the equivalent in hero levels as heroes are really equipment. Counterstrike and TF2 are old games, but Overwatch, DoTA 2 and LoL are not. CS:GO has ranks which is used for matchmaking.

WR used to have hanger or equipment based matchmaking but changed this around February of 2017 to this League system, which is highly controversial and remains so. But the League system has eliminated the hanger based clubbing that afflicted the game in 2016, especially the use of Gepards with Magnums and Aphids at the low levels.

Quote

may be that all of MWO is more to spent than all of WR, but I doubt it seeing the prices of WR, and WR has a fraction of stuff compared to MWO, so WB stuff is massively overpriced. And pay to compete is one of the worst mechanics a game can have.

Everyone is complaining about the roulette system but many are still willing to pay for it. Pay to compete is everywhere including many of the most successful games in the business like Monster Strike and Crossfire, both of whom has achieved over one billion in a year's time. And so is Pokemon Go, another game I play. "Worst" is not the same as "successful".

Pokemon in all its games, is another franchise that features extensive layering and leveling.

Quote

may be, and I surely have no problem staying at a specific level of gameplay if I can not advance, thats how competition works, but when my competition level is limited by the game design because someoen thought, hey how about grind a few month first before youc na compete, then exactly this is one of the most beginners unfriendly setups by designs because it makes a beginner not able to even compete, and maybe never does given how the game keeps devloping and the beginner never able to reach the end equip. Good competition is made by skill a s afactor and not your ability to no Life grind equipment.

Beginners and underequipped players are not supposed to be fighting pros and I mean pros with top level equipment. And skill is a major factor on this, the difference of skill, not just skill but experience and mental fortitude is vast.

Quote

how am I competitive in agriffin if it needs weeks to even just upgrade it (by the time the upgrades need), thats not even including the gathering of the money, Thats not competitive because the game forces me to work with inferior equipment by game design. And most iother equipment driven games are those where my eequipment comes from pve activities, not necessarily forcign you to play vs superior equipped people to get your equipment.

You can get a Griffin to level 7 in two to three days, and every piece of equipment there in for the same amount of time. A Griffin can already be bought by a beginner, and so are Punishers, Punisher MK 2s, Pins and Tulumbas. The Russian Death Button Griffin is among the most feared setups in the game, and it can be purchased all with silver and leveled up fairly quickly. A level 7 upgrade takes slightly more than a day without using gold.

Quote

So counterstrike is badly designed? it isn't. The only issue MWO has is that the WASD CTRL, SHIFT left and right click potatoes aren't able to handle the few more buttons MWO offers. But generally the System in MWO is rather competitive by skill as getting one mech proeprly equipped isn't a lot work. Especially not after the academy and it's bonus money was added ontop of the cadette boni.

Counterstrike is an old game, full of many cheats and hacks. By today's standards, badly designed now. Modern mass arena games are differentiated by tiering and layering of player ranks by equipment and skill.

Quote

balance is one think, but you cna never ever balance skill anyways you can just seperate skill, and that depends on a proper rating system whch MWO fails to deliver.

The league system on MWO is the right direction but the population size fails to deliver.

Quote

Maps aren't that small, given the mechs speed most of these maps are very similar to the old river city or forst colony by scale. And i saw multipe spawn campings already. And as said before the walls are just equipment not skill and its higher playerbase is what makes WR have an easier time for matchups. And thats mostly thanks to mobile games easy accessability otherwise it had probably worse matchups than MWO.

You are comparing to the old maps which are meant for 8 vs 8. WR is meant for 6 vs 6. Maps are scaled for that. Spawn campings in the game are unlike that of MWO's FP, which is completely about farming. For that matter, no one complains about "spawn camping" in WR discussions and for that matter, there are no mechanisms made to compensate because no one asked for it. To drop in on damaged enemies with fresh mechs represents a good opportunity for kills and damage. If you don't want to drop into a hostile spawn, you do have a choice of leaving the game or not pressing the button to spawn, or with Beacon Rush, pick a different spawn. Your entire deck is not forced to drop automatically and be consumed before you are allowed to play another game.

Using silver bots and weapons does not stop you from competing with the higher leagues if you leveled them up. Leagues themselves are based on player performance, which is a combination of skill, equipment and most of all, decision making with regards to your tactics, position, choice of equipment for the right moment and the right place, along with the proper setup. Being in the right team helps, but you still gain league advance if you are in the top two spots of the losing team.

Games like DoTA 2, LoL, WoT takes many months, even over a year to have a semblance of mastery. Those are games you never completely master. And that is complexity right there that keeps players glued. Being a newer game and not having as much layers yet, I see people reach a high level of "mastery" in War Robots in about four to six months, but reaching the championship level remains a different matter.

Edited by Anjian, 12 September 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[Anjian]

After some thought, I think the opening topic itself needs a clearer answer.

Is War Robots competition to MWO?

From my experience over in that community, there are only a few players that came from MWO and like, I don't think some of them have not given up on MWO yet.

The vast majority of players in WR don't care, or heard, or is willing to play Battletech or MWO. They are tapped from all walks of life and all corners of the globe. Especially since BT and MWO seems only best known in North America and parts of Europe (Russia and Germany in particular), whereas War Robots is truly global (From Japan to Iran, from Russia to South America, from India to Italy). This is one game where you frequently cannot pronounce the names of players because they are in Arabic, Cyrillic, Hindu, Bangladeshi, Chinese, Japanese or Korean.

There are those who did play Battletech or heard about it, but isn't considering MWO.

There aren't a lot of people that would migrate between platforms for a game. If people are playing PC, they are likely to stick on PC. If people are playing on mobile, they are likely to stick to playing mobile. Furthermore, they will stick to their mobile OS platform (Android vs. iOS). Same with console players, as well as players that stick to a particular console platform. War Robots however has begun its PC "invasion", by being playable on the PC via Facebook Gameroom, and appears considering Steam. But then again, World of Tanks Blitz is also on Steam and playable on the PC, but Wargaming doesn't consider this self competition 'competition' against the main World of Tanks game.

War Robots competes mainly with

Other big name mobile games such as World of Tanks Blitz.

There are many robot related games in mobile, such as Robokrieg, though War Robots stands well apart from its sheer population and quality (Google gave it Editor's Choice award.)

As a game first developed in Russia, Russian and increasingly European games (Eastern Europe, CIS) of a massive arena PvP nature tend to target World of Tanks.

As with all games, those dissatisfied with the game and looking for a replacement may seek other games, but the game they seek for that has been ---

Battle of Titans, for short is known as BoTs. BoTs ironically is created by former Pixonic War Robots developers (disgruntled and left the company after it was taken over by my.com). Battle of Titans is currently in beta and on the iOS platform only.

Edited by Anjian, 14 September 2017 - 04:27 PM.