26 replies to this topic

[Mr Snrub]

I have some questions.

Is there a reason IS LB 10-X's projectile speed (1100) is lower than that of every other IS LBX (1330)?

Was it OP?

Did someone say it was useful? Who was it and where can I find him?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I guess someone decided it would have some drawback compared to the other LBX classes, since LBX10 is the only one lighter than its normal AC type and its the only LBX that is smaller than its normal AC type instead of larger.

Not like any of them are really good where they are, but I guess its some sort of relative balancing PGI was trying.

[Spheroid]

1100 is more than adequate for typical engagement ranges. Its somewhat a non issue.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mr Goldenfold, on 09 September 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

I have some questions.

Is there a reason IS LB 10-X's projectile speed (1100) is lower than that of every other IS LBX (1330)?

Was it OP?

Did someone say it was useful? Who was it and where can I find him?

PGI gave the other LBX cannos more speed to compensate for the fact that they weigh more and or take up more slots than their non-lbx cousins.

PGI thinks that giving the IS LBX/20 a high projectile speed compensates for being 11 slots.

Yes, they actually do. Isn't that sad?

[JediPanther]

Put it on the cent-d and max fire power for range,velocity and cool down and it's almost as good as pre skill tree. Cent-d was an lbx 10 mini gun.

[Jun Watarase]

Mr Goldenfold, on 09 September 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

I have some questions.

Is there a reason IS LB 10-X's projectile speed (1100) is lower than that of every other IS LBX (1330)?

Was it OP?

Did someone say it was useful? Who was it and where can I find him?

I suspect that this is a holdover from the beta days where the LB-10x was the only LBX around. Back then, you had AC 10s with a projectile speed of 950 so they probably felt that 1100 was "enough". Of course, since it was spread damage, nobody liked it anyway.

Then they started adding clan LBXs and in true PGI fashion they did a lot of copypasting. Which is why the LB-2X has lower projectile speeds than the UAC 2 because they just copy pasted the LB-5x projectile speeds for the LB-2x.

[Razorfish]

Off topic and not that anyone cares… but when we play table top, 5 or 6 times a year, LBX ACs all do 50% more that listed damage as a house rule. That would work well here I think.

[Y E O N N E]

Jun Watarase, on 11 September 2017 - 09:01 PM, said:

I suspect that this is a holdover from the beta days where the LB-10x was the only LBX around. Back then, you had AC 10s with a projectile speed of 950 so they probably felt that 1100 was "enough". Of course, since it was spread damage, nobody liked it anyway.

Then they started adding clan LBXs and in true PGI fashion they did a lot of copypasting. Which is why the LB-2X has lower projectile speeds than the UAC 2 because they just copy pasted the LB-5x projectile speeds for the LB-2x.

AC/10 is still 950 m/s. Actually, I recall it used to have a faster projectile, but at some point in 2014 they nerfed projectile speed across the board except for AC/2. I think it was at the same time they cut max range for all ballistics except Gauss and LB-X from 3x to 2x.

[FupDup]

The bigger question is why the LB 5, 2, and 20 all share the same speed...

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 11 September 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

The bigger question is why the LB 5, 2, and 20 all share the same speed...

Sssssssssh, the last thing we need is them nerfing the LB-20X to 650 m/s!

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 September 2017 - 09:29 PM, said:

Sssssssssh, the last thing we need is them nerfing the LB-20X to 650 m/s!

I'm mostly worried about the LB 2-X.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 11 September 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

I'm mostly worried about the LB 2-X.

Come now, you know things don't work that way!

[Jun Watarase]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 September 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

AC/10 is still 950 m/s. Actually, I recall it used to have a faster projectile, but at some point in 2014 they nerfed projectile speed across the board except for AC/2. I think it was at the same time they cut max range for all ballistics except Gauss and LB-X from 3x to 2x.

I meant that they thought 1100 would be a good enough improvement over the AC 10's 950 ms speed to justify the spread (it isnt, but PGI doesnt know that).

[Lykaon]

Razorfish, on 11 September 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

Off topic and not that anyone cares… but when we play table top, 5 or 6 times a year, LBX ACs all do 50% more that listed damage as a house rule. That would work well here I think.

Why?

If you're using solid slugs the LBX10 is just superior to an AC10 in nearly every way. Lower heat,lighter fewer crits longer range...why would it need more damage?

And if you're firing shot you are probably targeting a mech with several open armor sections (or at least one important one) or a tank or aircraft (where the multiple hits have higher probability at crits) and the advantages are already present with the shot mechanics.

Have you ever tried using an Annihilator with 4 LB10X on table top? if you can get past the endless dice rolling you will find this mech frequently disables enemy mechs without ever punching through armor...through armor engine and gyro hits or pilot killed results from head hits without punching through the cockpit armor.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 11 September 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

The bigger question is why the LB 5, 2, and 20 all share the same speed...

And another questions is that why they don't save 1 ton and 1 slot from the standard. Hell, the only reason why I actually use the LB10X is that it's lighter. The LB20X is seriously gimped because of this,.

Why would anyone sacrifice the possible use of LFE for a weapon worse than the AC20 or UAC20 is beyond me.

[Jman5]

Probably just placeholder values they figured they would tune later. A lot of the new tech has weird scaling issues that don't make a lot of sense in the context of the game's current balance.

[Athom83]

FupDup, on 11 September 2017 - 09:24 PM, said:

The bigger question is why the LB 5, 2, and 20 all share the same speed...

A general buff to make them more desirable would be to set their velocity to 50% more than their standard AC equivalents.

The6thMessenger, on 12 September 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

And another questions is that why they don't save 1 ton and 1 slot from the standard. Hell, the only reason why I actually use the LB10X is that it's lighter. The LB20X is seriously gimped because of this,.
Why would anyone sacrifice the possible use of LFE for a weapon worse than the AC20 or UAC20 is beyond me.

Actually, that higher base range, 3x max range, and higher velocity really do give it upsides over lights and mediums. Plus that critdamage, it does work in your favor sometimes.

[CFC Conky]

When used in conjunction with other weapons, or better yet, in conjunction with other mechs (team game and all that), the LB10X is an excellent weapon.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

And another questions is that why they don't save 1 ton and 1 slot from the standard. Hell, the only reason why I actually use the LB10X is that it's lighter. The LB20X is seriously gimped because of this,.

Why would anyone sacrifice the possible use of LFE for a weapon worse than the AC20 or UAC20 is beyond me.

The LB-10X was actually statted into Battletech quite some time before the other LB-X guns. It was, in the dim pre-Clan past, intended to be a taste of what the Clans -would- have been...Star League era robots going at the lower-tech 3025-era Successor State armies.

Instead, someone had the brilliantly dumb idea to give Clanners supertech, and in the process later LB-X were balanced against other IS technology instead. Thus, all other LB-X are bulkier than the original AC's. Of course, they also gave us the split-crit rule so big fatty guns like LB-20X and HGauss would be useful, but PGI dropped that ball.

[The6thMessenger]

Athom83, on 12 September 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

Actually, that higher base range, 3x max range, and higher velocity really do give it upsides over lights and mediums. Plus that critdamage, it does work in your favor sometimes.

Screw the base range, LBXs with their spread, using them at those ranges would just sand-blast enemies. High velocity for the LB20X? Sure i guess, but not enough for the fact that i have to use the heavy STD engine for it.

Crit damage isn't that big of a deal at most of the match, it works best only when the enemy is naked. And with a competent one, he already did enough damage when his armor was stripped.

Brain Cancer, on 12 September 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Of course, they also gave us the split-crit rule so big fatty guns like LB-20X and HGauss would be useful, but PGI dropped that ball.

Pfft, if they can drop the ball on crit-splitting, they should also drop the ball on TT crit-slot and tons.