75 replies to this topic

[Daz cat]

will radar's take into account jammers and the effect of buildings .in the city radars would probably not work very well due to the large amount of buildings so will there be sattelite radar and UAV drones???

[Riptor]

I sure hope it does... actually it has to.. or else the whole scout mech role will be obsolete or rather not as usefull and desireable as it could be.

[Stormwolf]

What Riptor said.

[The Basilisk]

Remember the books.

What we refere to as *radar* is a merge of different types of sensors.
IR, Radar, Lidar, MagRes, EM Broadband, Seismic, etc.

MagRes, Broadband and Seismic Sensors aren't even bound to the line of sight.
They detect the electromagnetic distorsions of a mechs Reaktor (X-Ray, Gamma-ray and Neutrino Emissions), the magnetic anomalys of their massive amount of metal moving around and simply the sound of their massive foot steps when moving.

Even the *old* IS LosTech Mechs had a lot of fancy stuff to detect each other or poor little vehicles and foot soldiers without fancy equipment.

Imagine what would be possible with Beagle Probes, Watchdog suits or different types of armor.

I belive if the devs are as smart as I think, the warriors skills in spotting an enemy will be as invaluable as stedy hands and keen eyes for the sniper boys loafing around.

Your Basilisk

[Daz cat]

i didnt read to many of the books but is the game is going to be based on the books or do we stomp around blasting the absolute crap out of everybody??

[Warren]

I think this will work well if it takes into acount all the limiting factors like buildings, jammers etc as Daz-cat mentioned. I would love to take on the role of a scout and it will be greatly enhanced by having different and unique ways of gathering intel that other pilots in dedicated assualt mechs wouldnt be able to do because of their electronics load outs. It will definitely enhance the team dynamics of the game.

[Riptor]

Quote

MagRes, Broadband and Seismic Sensors aren't even bound to the line of sight.
They detect the electromagnetic distorsions of a mechs Reaktor (X-Ray, Gamma-ray and Neutrino Emissions), the magnetic anomalys of their massive amount of metal moving around and simply the sound of their massive foot steps when moving.

Even the *old* IS LosTech Mechs had a lot of fancy stuff to detect each other or poor little vehicles and foot soldiers without fancy equipment.

Wich doesnt explain the "double blind" type of game for TT wich used line of sight...

And personaly those games where buckets of fun atleast on megamek... more fun then seeing your enemys mechs on the board from round 1 on.

Also enabled IS players to get in close and personal with the clan mechs and negate their long range weapons atleast a little bit.

[The Basilisk]

@Riptor
Yea there was line of sight in double blind. But also rules for enemy detection with different types of sensors. Especialy with IR and Seismic.
Regarding Megamek: When i last checked there was a more simple set of spotting rules then in the full blown board game rules but there were at least rules for Beagle and other types of active advanced sensors.

Besides: Refering to the first dev interwiew there will be some kind of skill system. Elektronic Warfare would be ideal to be included that way.
I think the environment will have influence on detecting an enemy. But I don't think it will be a simple line of sight thing.
Remember they don't wish to go the 'Bigger Mech is better Mech' way.
Only way to do this is giving small mechs a Job they CAN do.
A small Mech may be fast and nimble. His pilot may be better than the on in the bigger Mech. But Hunchback needs only ONE hit to destroy a Wasp or a Stinger. The small one needs many good aimed shoots and luck.

[Barantor]

One good hit and you have to track that wasp doing 95.1 kmph and it might be jumping too.

Hopefully the mobility of lights is finally fully realized and they can do the recon and fast attack roles they were made for.

[guardiandashi]

the "radar" of previous mechwarrior games realistically would not work/is not radar per say.

radar is using radio waves to detect objects, but it NEEDS los (Line of sight) to work as it is bouncing a radio beam off objects and picking up the reflections

Ladar Laser Radar uses the same principles except using a laser beam as the emmission source

these would work well against trhings like aerospace fighters etc. not so good against vtols mechs vehicles etc that can hide in "ground clutter"

known sensors used by battlemechs
visual, and enhanced visual
em sensors (Electromagnetic sensors) detect electromagnetic emmissions sources IE electricity .. you know the power your mech is using to charge its weapons, reload its ammo, walk etc? ya these sensors can see it, the neon sign in the bars window? ya it sees that too. my understanding however is that em sensors are NOT targeting sensors they can tell you there is an emmissions source but unless there is a "distinctive fingerprint" its not going to be able to tell what is causing the emmitting (note this radiation WILL penetrate walls and obstructions)

IR Infared sensors, IE heat can spot hot objects this way, in novels it has been used to track mechs... by following the hot footprints on the ground more precice information available CAN be used as a targeting sensor can also potentually see through (thin) walls/obstructions

visual sensors los what you can see ... nuff said

Magrez sensors (Magnetic Resonance Scanners) picks up manetically responsive objects IE you know that car parked on the street the plastic one is not very detectable but the ford f150 oh ya you see it just dandy, along with the I beams in the building the battlemech behind the building the 5000 tons of iron ore in the hill over there .... etc, not a targeting sensor per say but it can tell you something needs to be looked at.

Seismic sensors yippy you can detect earthquakes... and the ground shaking vibrations a mech makes as it walks...pinpoint prescision does NOT exist here not a targeting sensor just a look here, also if a mech stops moving this sensor is unlikely to detect anything .... until it starts moving again.

[Red Beard]

Daz-cat, on 12 December 2011 - 01:50 AM, said:

i didnt read to many of the books but is the game is going to be based on the books or do we stomp around blasting the absolute crap out of everybody??

I am hoping for more stompy-stompy-pew-pew, and less book wormy-ness.

[Odin]

How Will Radar Work?



Hopefully like in RL, thats LOS and nothing else. The famous MW2/3/4 radar prevented any descend gameplay right on the spot. Make no mistake you can't handle the radar thing lightly, its a game maker or breaker - wow! I'm a poet as well as a smart a°° Sure, there's some room for the RPG or stats thing but this basic thing, shapes the game like damage model or weapon balancing; Radar is one of the core pillars of Mechwarfare.

[Holmes]

Red Beard, on 12 December 2011 - 07:24 AM, said:

I am hoping for more stompy-stompy-pew-pew, and less book wormy-ness.

*Looks at your signature. Disregards your post.*

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I certainly don't want tp see the G o d radar of previous games which had far too great a range and went through hills buildings etc. As Odin said this can be a game breaker. In general scout mechs should have the best "standard" sensors before the effects of Guardian, Beagle etc are taken into account. I think all light mechs should have a bonus to sensors, not just the dedicated scouts.

[Major Crash]

None of this 'display all on battlefield automatically' arcade stuff I hope.
Sounds like it will more likely be somewhat dependent upon your point of view, ie..from a 'Recon' w his LOS screen hits being feed back to a 'Command' class who may have this as of yet unseen 'Battle Grid' w overhead views. Surely a 'Command' would then be able to distribute that data to Lancemates via their screens. No doubt other techs available like the shoulder fired Recon drone will feed into this new web.

Soo many new toys, tactics & strategys. Is it Weds yet?

[sgtmack]

I hope radar does get affected by terrain and buildings. Why would I need to scout if everyone can see every mech on the map? The only chance my Jenner has is to stay hidden, and sneak around keeping track of the enemy assaults. If they can see me through buildings and over hills I won't last long.
The fun of being a scout is trying to keep track of the enemy without them keeping track of you. Using terrain masking, hiding behind buildings, getting lost in ground clutter are the tools I will need to stay alive.
So, LOS radar, with local effect active probes would be great.

[Tierloc]

I would think the more tonnage, the more sensors available (just by sheer weight, surface area for mounts). That's my only disenchantment with scout mechs having all the goodies. I assume electronic additions to enhance or limit your scope and footprint would be available depending on your chassis restrictions.

But, I don't see 80 tons marching down the street being able to hide from your radar detection when your behind a single building. Maybe from thermal (though they have those xray detectors for thermal).

Alot of times, everyone goes passive radar and the scout mech uses line of sight to identify targets with no radio contact. That's the best way to surprise the opponent. The scout mech is quick, small, and maneuverable. I wouldn't give it radar advantage (as power) just because of it's size.

LOS radar is annoying as hell in MW4. If it was implemented where you maintained the contact for 10s after losing LOS (similar to missle locks) it might not be as bad, but in gameplay it's beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. No thank you.

[Demise]

I will really applaud the devs if they make intel work... knowing where the heavy lance was in previous pc versions was never the problem, it was having the firepower to destroy it...

One simple way of bringing intel to the fore is introducing lots (and lots) of weather: sand and dust storms, rain, fog, snow... and darkness.

High visibility will probably just mean lots of dead scouts...

[Tannhauser Gate]

Holmes, on 12 December 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

*Looks at your signature. Disregards your post.*

nods..Id be perfectly fine if MS made another version of MA for the Xbox people. Then we could have all the MA folks who want mario zelda mechwarrior (with power ups..lol) happily far away from us.

As for the question, I agree that it shouldn't be god radar at all. Id like to see radar display not just limited to radar data but layered with other systems like seismic, uav, satellite etc. But also limitations like terrain, buildings, jamming, atmospheric disturbances. But really, I want the devs to balance it as they need to. Radar is one of those things that could wreck the game if its not done right.

[sNeepTray]

Crouching could be used to be detected at closer ranges (below radar)
but mechs have some fancy equipment