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Farewell To The Tier System


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#1 Inatu Elimor

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:37 AM

Not bothering anymore.

I LOVE MWO JUST FOR THE FUN.

No more meta mechs. No more frustrations getting rolled over. No more complaints about nerfing, balancing, potatoes or whatever. No deal anymore when descending on tier. Matchmaker? Makes me Posted Image
Where it makes no difference who is playing with whom. People teach, people listen and people learn.
Where you again start playing those beloved mechs that gathered dust for too long.

For a better MWO world ! ELO system to be invisible again!

Cheers,

Inatu.

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 09 September 2017 - 11:38 AM.


#2 Y E O N N E

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:58 AM

Are you going to hide your tier, now?

#3 Spheroid

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:59 AM

yeah stat tracking is still a thing. Are you under the impression public shaming won't persist?

Russ wants to go Esports. Esports feeds on stats. Your dream is illusionary.

Edited by Spheroid, 09 September 2017 - 12:00 PM.


#4 kf envy

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 12:13 PM

View PostSpheroid, on 09 September 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

yeah stat tracking is still a thing. Are you under the impression public shaming won't persist?

Russ wants to go Esports. Esports feeds on stats. Your dream is illusionary.


if they wanted to go esports then PGI should have done it back in beta an not 5 years latter.

#5 Eirik Eriksson

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 01:15 PM

The tier system has been obsolete for a long time now. For matchmaking that is. Lets just leave it as it is and start working for a new hidden system for matchmaking to not hurt any feelings.

#6 Brain Cancer

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:51 PM

I'm a firm believer that stats should be out there and in the open, the more the better.

It makes it so much easier to call BS on people when they say one thing and don't even come close in reality.

#7 Thorqemada

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 12:19 AM

You can go to the Leaderboards and Search anybodys Name...

What else do you want?

Sure, incoming damage (armorsharing) would be a nice stat as well as teamdamage/TKing...

#8 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:15 AM

Visible stats makes it obvious when someone on the brown sea is talking through their ***.

And the e-sports delusion requires a large playerbase, which is what PGI have never bothered pursuing.

#9 El Bandito

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:43 AM

I agree that people should have fun while playing MWO--for it is entertainment, first and for most. Some people have fun by improving their skills, such as me. Thus for me, stats are very important tool.

#10 Asym

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 05:56 AM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 09 September 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

I'm a firm believer that stats should be out there and in the open, the more the better.

It makes it so much easier to call BS on people when they say one thing and don't even come close in reality.


Really? How do you account for testing new mech loadouts? Dozens of loses in a row...
How about mastering a new mech w/o premium time because many won't spend a penny with PGI?
How about non-team players who "just want to play" and not be part of the "elite few's personal power trips?"
How about people who enjoy just a few mech's that aren't the current meta and get killed more than win?
etc., etc., and so it goes...

Statistics only are numbers people in this game use to belittle or reward other players.... They are a crock of hate that really, don't tell any story at all....

You read it all of the time: "Look, that player is so full of *#&! because their w/l is below 1.00 and their average damage is less that 200" and that's not average...........: Really? Some players are handicapped. Some are bedridden and play. Some are playing "just for the love of the MW universe."

What happens when a new player or someone who isn't all that good "finds relevant gameplay illregularities or observes releveant meta balance failures?" Just because that players "averages" which, to my knowledge PGI hasn't established, aren't what you or others think, that players somehow is belittled?

Your angst is counter-intuitive and counter-productive. We need to keep every pilot we have....

Just my opinion and I'm a below average player and at this point, who cares: it's just a game..........

Edited by Asym, 10 September 2017 - 06:04 AM.


#11 MechWarrior5152251

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:07 AM

I have been stuck in Tier 2 Hell for years. What can I do improve?

I have never used a coolshot, maybe cheapness leads to Potatoes?

#12 Asym

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:20 AM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 09 September 2017 - 11:51 PM, said:

I'm a firm believer that stats should be out there and in the open, the more the better.

It makes it so much easier to call BS on people when they say one thing and don't even come close in reality.


OK, let's play with statistics:

Your stats:
7397 23 21 1.10 51 24 2.13 44 402 Just a tad over average? Only 44 games? Wow!

My stats:
543 85 97 .88 51 125 .41 182 175 I mastered 2 new mechs during this time frame !!!

Another widely recognized player and forum commentator:
449 90 42 2.14 208 65 3.20 132 407 More than twice your 1.10.....man, you need to practice....

So, what can we infer?
I've played as many games as both you combined!
And, I'm not a brawling or light driver so my damage is going to be a little less that either of you on average !
I mastered two new mechs in weight classes I'm not very good at: light and Mediums (a lot of losses.)
Yes, I tried a meta MG mech and it was fun, but I'm terrible at playing since I play one handed.......
I've been in MWO just about 7 months: you and the example have been here for years....?
I play during all of the MWO time periods and many of those times are "prime time" for other parts of the world....
You've played a whopping 44 games! On or with a team or solo? Do the stats say that? Does that make a difference? Were they all stomps in FP? Team drops? Open MWO market gameplay?

You need to get a lot more involved in this game lad, you are no where near the real world example I used...
Was that fun? No.... I'd rather drop with someone and figure out what works...

Edited by Asym, 10 September 2017 - 06:54 AM.


#13 CFC Conky

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:08 AM

View PostAsym, on 10 September 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:


OK, let's play with statistics:

Your stats:
7397 23 21 1.10 51 24 2.13 44 402 Just a tad over average? Only 44 games? Wow!

My stats:
543 85 97 .88 51 125 .41 182 175 I mastered 2 new mechs during this time frame !!!

Another widely recognized player and forum commentator:
449 90 42 2.14 208 65 3.20 132 407 More than twice your 1.10.....man, you need to practice....

So, what can we infer?
I've played as many games as both you combined!
And, I'm not a brawling or light driver so my damage is going to be a little less that either of you on average !
I mastered two new mechs in weight classes I'm not very good at: light and Mediums (a lot of losses.)
Yes, I tried a meta MG mech and it was fun, but I'm terrible at playing since I play one handed.......
I've been in MWO just about 7 months: you and the example have been here for years....?
I play during all of the MWO time periods and many of those times are "prime time" for other parts of the world....
You've played a whopping 44 games! On or with a team or solo? Do the stats say that? Does that make a difference? Were they all stomps in FP? Team drops? Open MWO market gameplay?

You need to get a lot more involved in this game lad, you are no where near the real world example I used...
Was that fun? No.... I'd rather drop with someone and figure out what works...


Shack.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#14 Jman5

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:10 AM

View PostMechWarrior5152251, on 10 September 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

I have been stuck in Tier 2 Hell for years. What can I do improve?

I have never used a coolshot, maybe cheapness leads to Potatoes?


Well, using a coolshot on a warm mech will definitely improve your matchscore a little. 1 or 2 extra alphastrikes in a game mean a little boost to matchscore.

It's hard to say what you can do to improve without seeing you play. There could be any number of low-hanging fruit issues.

I can give you some general advice from what I have seen from other struggling players and you can take what you want.

1. Many players don't alpha strike enough. They needlessly fire some of their weapons first, then the next weapon group, then the next weapon group even when they have a clear shot. Unless you have a ghost heat issue, alphastrike by default. The reason is that your target has less time to slip away, your weapons are more focused on one component, and you can spend less time face-tanking the opponent. Weapon groups are for specific situations like you can only hit a target with your arm weapons, or you're peaking from your left side with your right side covered, or your heat is too high, or some of your weapons are out of range.

TL;DR alpha striking increases your damage.

2. Torso twist more. Everyone can improve here, so don't tell me you torso twist fine. Best way to get better is to decide up front which way you will torso twist by default to protect your main guns. Then at the start of every match when you're walking toward the fight, just practice twisting. The more practice, the more automatic it will become.

3. Don't die early with dumb charges. A lot of ugly deaths happen because a player got himself into an unfavorable engagement. A 2v1 or a stronger mech vs your weaker one. Be brave when the numbers are on your side and be cautious when they're not. Even a very good player is in deep trouble when he's out numbered.

Edited by Jman5, 10 September 2017 - 07:12 AM.


#15 CFC Conky

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:21 AM

View PostJman5, on 10 September 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:


Well, using a coolshot on a warm mech will definitely improve your matchscore a little. 1 or 2 extra alphastrikes in a game mean a little boost to matchscore.

It's hard to say what you can do to improve without seeing you play. There could be any number of low-hanging fruit issues.

I can give you some general advice from what I have seen from other struggling players and you can take what you want.

1. Many players don't alpha strike enough. They needlessly fire some of their weapons first, then the next weapon group, then the next weapon group even when they have a clear shot. Unless you have a ghost heat issue, alphastrike by default. The reason is that your target has less time to slip away, your weapons are more focused on one component, and you can spend less time face-tanking the opponent. Weapon groups are for specific situations like you can only hit a target with your arm weapons, or you're peaking from your left side with your right side covered, or your heat is too high, or some of your weapons are out of range.

TL;DR alpha striking increases your damage.

2. Torso twist more. Everyone can improve here, so don't tell me you torso twist fine. Best way to get better is to decide up front which way you will torso twist by default to protect your main guns. Then at the start of every match when you're walking toward the fight, just practice twisting. The more practice, the more automatic it will become.

3. Don't die early with dumb charges. A lot of ugly deaths happen because a player got himself into an unfavorable engagement. A 2v1 or a stronger mech vs your weaker one. Be brave when the numbers are on your side and be cautious when they're not. Even a very good player is in deep trouble when he's out numbered.


So you've been watching me play then, lol!

I'm definitely one of those players who doesn't alpha strike enough, gotta work on that.

Good advice all around Jman5.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#16 Inatu Elimor

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 09:41 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 09 September 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Are you going to hide your tier, now?


Affirm.

#17 Brain Cancer

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:03 AM

View PostAsym, on 10 September 2017 - 05:56 AM, said:


Really? How do you account for testing new mech loadouts? Dozens of loses in a row...
How about mastering a new mech w/o premium time because many won't spend a penny with PGI?
How about non-team players who "just want to play" and not be part of the "elite few's personal power trips?"
How about people who enjoy just a few mech's that aren't the current meta and get killed more than win?
etc., etc., and so it goes...


Check your stats. It lists them by chassis. Someone talks smack, you point at them. Of course, right now PGI doesn't LET other people see your detailed stats, despite them being readily available.
I don't spend a dime on PGI. I mastered everything, and handily enough, since I don't immediately go Pokemech on a new chassis after mastering one, I even have GXP and C-bills to get a new chassis jumpstarted.
If you don't play with the team, then you rightfully are going to have sucky stats and deserve to be called out on it.
I play most of my games in an utterly non-meta Orion IIC. It's a missile boat. It's a non-meta robot with the most non-meta weapons short of playing a troll flamer/TAG build.

Posted Image

I like him so much, my friends even made a model of him for me.

Posted Image

Enjoying something non-meta isn't why you get your face melted day in and day out. The reason it happens is a lack of Vitamin GG. Git. Gud.

Quote

Statistics only are numbers people in this game use to belittle or reward other players.... They are a crock of hate that really, don't tell any story at all....


...other that the story of "how I keep dragging people down into losses and make constant excuses about "non-meta" or "it's just a new build, bro!" The more stats, the clearer the picture. The clearer the picture, the less your excuses can matter versus hard, cold truth.

Yeah, you can play with failed builds, tinkering constantly, have a habit of mounting the biggest autocannon you can find on your Spider while going "I'm an Urbanmech!" because it's your idea of fun. That's grand. Nobody's stopping you.

But it'd be a lot easier to point out what's going on if there was more to it than looking at the leaderboard and seeing a .41 K/D and a sub 1 W/L ratio with an under-200 average match score. Maybe that low K/D is because you end up getting 4 KMDD's for every K you get, but right now?

Nobody can see that, most importantly you. Better stat knowhow is the Windex on the foggy window of robot warfare- not only for others seeing you, but looking at your own performance and getting better results as well

Quote

You read it all of the time: "Look, that player is so full of *#&! because their w/l is below 1.00 and their average damage is less that 200" and that's not average...........: Really? Some players are handicapped. Some are bedridden and play. Some are playing "just for the love of the MW universe."


Great. These players should be in T4-T5 games, and if they're not we can point to that as a failure of the PSR and matchmaker in general. Again, more data equals clearer, stronger arguments for change.

Quote

What happens when a new player or someone who isn't all that good "finds relevant gameplay illregularities or observes releveant meta balance failures?" Just because that players "averages" which, to my knowledge PGI hasn't established, aren't what you or others think, that players somehow is belittled?


The same thing that usually happens every time I see a "Nerf LRMs" thread. Bad players are, from long experience, lousy at making balance commentary on anything simply because bad players cannot or have not observed the larger picture. To be good at a game, you generally have to have a better grasp on it than others.

If it's a gameplay irregularity? Screenshots. There's a reason the Internet is "Pics or it didn't happen", like the guy who repeatedly insisted he could lose PSR on a win despite it being mechanically impossible.

He checked his screenshots. Sure enough, it wasn't what he thought and...he didn't lose PSR on a win.

Quote

Your angst is counter-intuitive and counter-productive. We need to keep every pilot we have....

Just my opinion and I'm a below average player and at this point, who cares: it's just a game..........


...and if you're a bad player, you shouldn't be jammed into games as fodder for good ones.

You should be in your own low-tier sandbox, where you can do what you like with the highest number of players that will do the same.

But I refuse to accept "balance by potato" as a legit method of game improvement, and that's why people with bad stats get called out on the carpet when demanding changes unless they relate to quality-of-play.

"I'm bad because I'm color-blind and PGI cannot make a UI that allows me to play properly" - legit and valuable comment that should be considered immediately, regardless of stats.

"I'm bad because LRMs keep murdering me on Polar, and I think AMS and ECM are trash so I won't use them and I only pilot Dire Wolves with a .33 KDR, nerf LRMs!" - deservedly ignored comment because the player clearly is 1) not good and 2) not even trying to compensate for his issue with what's easily available in game.

"I'm having a bad season because I started piloting a Thanatos and I just don't get it" - right now, we can't tell unless they post a SS of their other stats from using other chassis, but if PGI actually gave us broader access to stats, we would.

"Why am I not making a lot of money on matches?" - all we can look at right now is kills, wins, match score. Maybe if we saw stuff like a really low components destroyed/assist count we could give better advice, or the player themselves could see where the gaps are and try for a new approach.

Information is ammunition, and I detest it when people keep trying to thumb bullets out of the clip magazine.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 10 September 2017 - 11:01 AM.


#18 Y E O N N E

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:06 AM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 10 September 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

Information is ammunition, and I detest it when people keep trying to thumb bullets out of the clip.


Magazine*

:P

Clips load into magazines, magazines load into receivers.

#19 Inatu Elimor

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 10:53 AM

In the end there are two types of players: casual and competitive. Now if you introduce a tier system then the whole system is competitive by definition. I suggest that for every game mode there should be an option to choose between casual or competitive.
So, when you choose casual there will be no punishments whereas in competitive mode there is.
This cannot be a biggie to program or is it??

#20 Brain Cancer

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 11:02 AM

If the rewards are the same, you will find yourself being sealclubbed anyway, as players will minimize grind by maximizing their easypeasey target practice. Your "casual" tier punishment will be getting farmed.

Stats and tiers are supposed to help keep the casual and the competitive apart, and the problem is that PGI's system doesn't do so. And hasn't for so long that it's been an anti-player-retention mechanic all by itself, sacrificing new player gain for keeping regular players fed a steady supply of fresh meat to keep the matches rolling at best speed.





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