94 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

50 50, on 12 September 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

That being:
1. Both teams full lrm no other systems.

What do you mean no other systems? No self-respecting LRM boater will bring no backup weapons.. They are an integral part of being a good LRM boat..

[B0oN]

MischiefSC, on 09 September 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

No betting, nopreconceptions or assumptions. The LRM team decides what map and team deck setup is best so there's no issue with "but you're doing it wrong". Goal is to get as fair and reasonable a test as possible.

Still need someone to get the LRM team going. Volunteers?

How much are you willing to pay me for the shame of using LRM´s ?
And I´m not talking CBills here, I talk realworld compensation for enduring horrible weapons and probably multiple PTSD´s from that experience .

[Jay Leon Hart]

MischiefSC, on 12 September 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

One more time, because this seems to get missed a lot, nobody is saying the LRM team has to be all LRMs. Just a minimum of 2 mechs carrying LRMs. Every other fact of that teams makeup is left to the LRM team to decide.

Quoting so hopefully we avoid yet another "but 12 LRM 'mechs will get crushed!" post...

[Davegt27]

Quote

What do you mean no other systems? No self-respecting LRM boater will bring no backup weapons.. They are an integral part of being a good LRM boat..

we seem to have a problem with definitions

there is an LRM Mech and a LRM boat

I learned during the Lance Challenge event way back in 2014
I think when one guy casually mentioned he could use his LRM boat. I was pretty new but OMG that thing was a monster
the rest of us in the lance said "we are glad your on our side"
a true LRM boat in bygone days would just kill you
there is a reason for the LRM hate a true boat was bad to the bone

A LRM Mech have back up weapons

the elephant in the room is PGI's super computers
they can buff or nerf any player or weapon real time

that's why one week everyone is crying about LRMs the next week nothing

[Jay Leon Hart]

Davegt27, on 13 September 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

the elephant in the room is PGI's super computers
they can buff or nerf any player or weapon real time

Erm, no they can't, because client data has to match for all users and any weapon changes would require a patch. So... yeah but no.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

If you really want this test you have to check multiple setups on multiple maps.

Start with a full lrm team with perhpas 1 or 2 narc lights for locks and then decrease the amount of lrms boats and swap in more direct fire mechs untill you get a team that can compete against a DF team. Probably going to get 0 lrms mechs on almost every map. The development of the outcome relative to the the amount of lrm boats played, and on which weight class the lrm boat is based tells you what you want to know.

In the end you will have a graph that tells you effectiveness of the lrm team vs lrm boats in the team. But that is a lot of work since you actually have to do every map several times since the results are noisy due to hitreg, serverhickups, ppl that simply had a bad round or the commander ahs to get his team together and it takes time till people wake up and start plaing their roles right, perhaps some direct fire setups arent that good on map due to heat and ranges, list goes on....... so you need a lot of matches to get an average that can be trusted.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 13 September 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Davegt27, on 13 September 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

we seem to have a problem with definitions

there is an LRM Mech and a LRM boat

I learned during the Lance Challenge event way back in 2014
I think when one guy casually mentioned he could use his LRM boat. I was pretty new but OMG that thing was a monster
the rest of us in the lance said "we are glad your on our side"
a true LRM boat in bygone days would just kill you
there is a reason for the LRM hate a true boat was bad to the bone

A LRM Mech have back up weapons

No sane lurmer just brings LRMs, because of the deadzone/megadamage reduction. Even a proper "boat" is packing at least a few medium lasers/quad smalls or the like. Heck, my "LRM boat" these days is just a "missile boat" because of all the ATMs I pack. Sure, I'm launching 50+ tubes on an alpha, but 40% of those are flatter arcs, higher velocity shots instead of the usual LRM lobs.

I could go back to LRM 60+, but it's like using a slow, predictable move in a fighting game. Easy to predict, easy to counter even when spammed.

[Davegt27]

Mac was good for some videos

totally different game these days so it wont hurt to do some tests

[JRDestroyer44]

Brain Cancer, on 13 September 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

No sane lurmer just brings LRMs, because of the deadzone/megadamage reduction. Even a proper "boat" is packing at least a few medium lasers/quad smalls or the like.

Exactly! I run 2 x LRM20 and 5 medium or er medium lasers. I lock on to any available target or cycle targets if multiple targets are available. This helps reduce their armor and knock off a component or two as well. If you call the target I will switch. I don't care about kills, I run support, I care about providing cover fire and doing large amounts of damage.

I normally sit just behind the main pack and provide laser support as well. You really need to stick close to the main pack else you an easy target, it also does mean you share the damage regularly.

[Sandpit]

I got 50 on direct fire team. Lurms are not meant to be the main weapon platform for a group of mechs, but I'm interested in seeing the results.

I have no doubt the direct fire team will win, but that doesn't mean lurms aren't viable. That simply shows why you should not boat lurms to the detriment of other weapon systems.

Brain Cancer, on 13 September 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

No sane lurmer just brings LRMs,

Agreed, too bad you have enough insane lurmers who do, all the time, even at Tier 2 and 1. It's not uncommon. Those are the ones that don't understand the mentality behind this honestly.

Lurms = decent weapon
Boated lurms = disaster more times than not

The only time boated lurms will do "well" is when they have a team around them specifically supporting their lurms.

[Wildstreak]

MischiefSC, on 12 September 2017 - 05:01 PM, said:

It's been tested many times by many teams. The point this time is to do so in a way that can be shown and reviewed and does its best to solve for skill disparity and tries to give LRMs all the benefits of the doubt required to cover the 'on some maps' and 'if played right' criteria.

There was a video from one previous attempt, can't find it but I did see it.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 14 September 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

I got 50 on direct fire team. Lurms are not meant to be the main weapon platform for a group of mechs, but I'm interested in seeing the results.

I have no doubt the direct fire team will win, but that doesn't mean lurms aren't viable. That simply shows why you should not boat lurms to the detriment of other weapon systems.


Agreed, too bad you have enough insane lurmers who do, all the time, even at Tier 2 and 1. It's not uncommon. Those are the ones that don't understand the mentality behind this honestly.

Lurms = decent weapon
Boated lurms = disaster more times than not

The only time boated lurms will do "well" is when they have a team around them specifically supporting their lurms.

Not about boated LRMs.

Only LRM requirements are 2 mechs with LRMs on the team. More, less, however that team wants to put it together. May want to reach out to Vellron2005 about helping out. Either joining the team (to NARC or brawl or bring LRMs or whatever) or even just to help identify good LRM players for the team.

[Mendicant Bias]

Archangel.84, on 09 September 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

I recently played an Invasion match against a well coordinated Clan Team and this is pretty much what they ended up doing as a result of their excellent map control and vision. I've never been shook around so much before in this game. lol

Also, look how many volleys it takes to damage and down a mech. That's how weak they are!!! xD
In the Beta they were powerhouses. Today, they've been relegated to support or assist roles. I feel disappointed both ways.

[Stone Wall]

Ruar, on 09 September 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

The problem is the people saying "LRMs are just as good" are wrong. The entire discussion can end there.

LRMs are bad, except in a few circumstances when they become devastating. The trick to using them in comps is setting up the situation where they are devastating. The trick to preventing a team from going LRM derp on you is making sure you take the counter measures just in case, then fighting the fight your way.

There's no need for all of the testing, the truth of LRMs is already known. People just like to deny it though.

LRMs suck compare to the past games. Or... maybe it's just the game sucks compared to the past games. Either way, LRMs in the year 2017 suck.

[MischiefSC]

Hey. Not arguing LRM viability here. Trying to get stuff DUN.

So who's game for joining the LRM team? I know Leone volunteered, so did CCRider. You both still good for that? Vellron and Devilwoman are both in. Who else wants to play on the LRM team?