38 replies to this topic

[Zoose]

Pat Kell, on 12 September 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Actually, 270 MC a day is the most that any unit can get. Pay outs cap out at 6 planets, any more than that and you don't get anything (unless they recently changed this rule). So 6 planets x 15 MC/planet x 3 cycles =270 MC or 1,890MC a week. Unless you are buying Pirate Banes (not a bad mech) you statement that we can buy a mech a week for our players is a little exaggerated.

The intent behind your statement is still valid though, IS does need some love. Unfortunately, we made the mistake of going loyalist and don't really want to go through the penalty phase at this time so we are stuck here.

Thanks for the heads up Pat. The most planets we have ever had at one time was 5 (several phases ago) so this didnt occur to me at the time of writing. Still 1,890 a week isn't bad when you can divvy it out and I know we have a lot of guys struggling to buy mechs.

[Pat Kell]

It can be a nice little reward, I agree. Takes a while to build up though. Hard part is not upsetting everyone else in your unit by purchasing a mech for 1 person, no matter how deserving or hard up they are. In some ways, it can lead to more problems than it's worth if it's not handled correctly.

[Daidachi]

If they introduced the Periphery states, there's enough of 'em there to make being IS as profitable as clans (on a pure % per drop basis).

But it's still window dressing. I'd honestly like to know what it would take to have players who have actually logged on in the past 30 days be the ones who count towards population percentages, because Wolf, Davion....both are perpetually clogged up by players who don't actually play, so the numbers are junk everywhere.

[FallingAce]

Daidachi, on 16 September 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

If they introduced the Periphery states, there's enough of 'em there to make being IS as profitable as clans (on a pure % per drop basis).

PGI added two new factions, making an equal number on both sides (6 and 6).

You would think this would make the contract system better than unequal numbers(6 and 4)

Instead, it made things even worse.

Cause PGI.

Soon we will be at uneven numbers again (6 and 7)

Because selling deckles and camo patterns are more important.

Daidachi, on 16 September 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

But it's still window dressing. I'd honestly like to know what it would take to have players who have actually logged on in the past 30 days be the ones who count towards population percentages, because Wolf, Davion....both are perpetually clogged up by players who don't actually play, so the numbers are junk everywhere.

Davion, Wolf, Steiner, Kurita, in that order most penalized by inactives vs PGI population numbers

FallingAce, on 23 August 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's been brought up many times, including the last town hall, that the population numbers are skewed by inactive pilots/people that don't play Faction Warfare.

I pulled the numbers from the leader boards for the 1st month of the invasion era.



Too bad it's to much work for PGI to do the same.

A few observations:

Since there are now 12 factions , the target number is now 8.3% of the population (100%/12)

The top 6 factions should have zero or negative bonuses. Instead it's the opposite.

Also the total off all contract bonuses should be zero, not +160 (highlighted on the chart).It's hard for the mercs not to abuse the system.

Can't wait till PGI add another +50 faction with Clan Diamond Shark.

[Commander A9]

If you want MC based on the planets you take...well, then start taking planets.

The MC doesn't go to the individual pilot-it goes to the UNIT which claims the planet. The decision to distribute that MC to unit members is entirely up to the unit commanders. The units aren't using that MC to allow their members to buy particular mechs unless they're distributing said MC for exactly that purpose, but I highly doubt units are doing that...why would they? And what benefit would it bring those pilots?

No one is being oppressed in Faction Warfare. No one is having their "rights" trampled upon. You have as much right to play Faction Warfare, or not to play. And no one is being paid actual money to play Faction Warfare. You can get C-bills from both Faction Warfare and Quickplay. Hell, you can probably get more C-Bills from Quickplay than Faction Warfare!

What truly defines the progress of Faction Warfare is the skill of the pilots who play it.

What you're really asking for is to receive some kind of bonus, payment, or MC payout despite the fact that you have not yet met the conditions for receiving such. You're asking to be compensated for losing territory to the Clans.

That's not happening-PGI isn't going to do that. You need to fight for what you want in Faction Warfare, same as the rest of us have.

Edited by Commander A9, 16 September 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[Zoose]

Commander A9, on 16 September 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

If you want MC based on the planets you take...well, then start taking planets.

The MC doesn't go to the individual pilot-it goes to the UNIT which claims the planet. The decision to distribute that MC to unit members is entirely up to the unit commanders. The units aren't using that MC to allow their members to buy particular mechs unless they're distributing said MC for exactly that purpose, but I highly doubt units are doing that...why would they? And what benefit would it bring those pilots?

No one is being oppressed in Faction Warfare. No one is having their "rights" trampled upon. You have as much right to play Faction Warfare, or not to play. And no one is being paid actual money to play Faction Warfare. You can get C-bills from both Faction Warfare and Quickplay. Hell, you can probably get more C-Bills from Quickplay than Faction Warfare!

What truly defines the progress of Faction Warfare is the skill of the pilots who play it.

What you're really asking for is to receive some kind of bonus, payment, or MC payout despite the fact that you have not yet met the conditions for receiving such. You're asking to be compensated for losing territory to the Clans.

That's not happening-PGI isn't going to do that. You need to fight for what you want in Faction Warfare, same as the rest of us have.

Is this addressed at my original post? Cant be, I dispel most of the points in my original post with stats.. If you want to have this point of view can you please provide some evidence to support your propositions and not just state what you believe to be facts. Your statements are unsupported statements at best.

Edited by Zoose, 16 September 2017 - 09:29 PM.

[Commander A9]

Okay, here we go.

Zoose, on 09 September 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

"IS Faction Want To More Money (IS Faction Union Want Equal Rights)"

IS want some more of the MC pie. Currently you have Clan loyalists earning 300 - 900 MC a day (20 planets) and IS want some of these PGI funds. That means some of these teams can buy a new mech a week for their players. If you want us to keep working under inferior conditions you need to increase our wages or tips! Otherwise we may need to organise a strike......just saying PGI

0. Your topic title is asking explicitly for bigger C-Bill and MC rewards for the Inner Sphere. The topic title also suggests that there exists some kind of player union of purely Inner Sphere players which are demanding "equal rights." But the nature of these "rights" has yet to be discussed and also implies that these "rights" are being infringed in some manner by otherwise unidentified parties, but parties of which are most likely Clan since this is the Faction Warfare forum and Clans are currently winning.

1. The only way you get MC in Faction Warfare is by taking planets-that's not an assumption; that's a core game mechanic and if I'm reading your topic correctly, it's the primary crux of your request (i.e., "IS want some more of the MC pie."). Only the units get MC. To distribute MC is a decision made by the unit officers-the MC does not go directly to unit members by default. So even if you do take a planet, your unit officer is the person who decides whether or not you actually benefit as the individual for your unit's effort at taking said planet.

2. The maximum amount of MC that can be earned a day is not 900 MC-it's 270 MC.

3. What exactly is "PGI funds?" If you're addressing the MC that units earn when they secure a planet, the only way to get this MC is by winning a planet...so it's up to Inner Sphere units to perform well enough to earn said planets. There are no rewards if you lose, and there shouldn't be.

4. You are not "working under inferior conditions" because you are not an employee of PGI, nor an employee of Mechwarrior Online, nor are the conditions you are playing under any different from the conditions your neighbors are playing under, aside from the type of computer hardware you are using to actually play the game and the physical environment in which you are doing it. Unless you actually are under contract to play Mechwarrior Online from PGI or a sponsor in an electronic gaming league, as the individual who created an account and signed the End User License Agreement when you activated the game client for the first time, you are not being paid to play this game. You are not under an offer of employment that assigns you to a 40-hour-a-week schedule, nor are there 'wages' or 'tips.' You earn C-Bills based on your performance, but you can earn C-Bills in both Quickplay and Faction Warfare-or you can buy them with MC or real money or as part of Mech Packs. No one is forcing you to play. You can leave or continue of your own free will. You are not under contract.

5. If you wish to 'organize a strike,' you are free to 'boycott' the game and attempt to organize a protest of your own volition, but I can guarantee you, attempts to do so have been orchestrated in the past and largly they have failed, with the exception of the static mini-map launch and the split-cue Faction Warfare attempt, both of which were rolled back within 24 hours due to the extreme negative reaction of the Mechwarrior community.

6. Based on the If-Then statement of "If you want us to keep working under inferior conditions you need to increase our wages or tips!," you are demanding that if PGI wants you to keep playing this game, then they have to provide you some kind of increase in in-game rewards. Based on the statement declaring "IS want some more of the MC pie," you are asking PGI for bigger MC rewards in Faction Warfare. But the roadblock in your argument is that to get MC, you need to win the planet.

Conclusion: If you want to reap the benefits of taking the planet...well, then take the planet. You know what you have to do.

Edited by Commander A9, 16 September 2017 - 11:24 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Commander how has you so badly missed the point, again? That reply above there is just eye-rolling.

It's not a question of "you know what to do", everyone knows whats required - the bar past the capture threshold.

As IS - You rarely get a chance to tag a planet. It is no more simple or difficult than that. Clan stacking will never stop as a number of lesser units (who just zerg rush objectives) ride the coattails of stronger ones winning the tougher fights to keep the bar @ 100% for Clan.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 17 September 2017 - 12:45 AM.

[Zoose]

Commander A9, on 16 September 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

Okay, here we go.

Awesome.

Quote

0. Your topic title is asking explicitly for bigger C-Bill and MC rewards for the Inner Sphere. The topic title also suggests that there exists some kind of player union of purely Inner Sphere players which are demanding "equal rights." But the nature of these "rights" has yet to be discussed and also implies that these "rights" are being infringed in some manner by otherwise unidentified parties, but parties of which are most likely Clan since this is the Faction Warfare forum and Clans are currently winning.

Actually the title was not meant to be taken literally and I thought asking for more tips would have indicated this but if you read the whole thread, I was trying to highlight that the current mechanism is rewarding teams that pick Clan. Also, I was focusing on MC not C-bills but that wasnt expressly mentioned so I could understand how that could be missed. I do note though the content of the post does expressly mention MC as I notice you discuss below.

Quote

1. The only way you get MC in Faction Warfare is by taking planets-that's not an assumption; that's a core game mechanic and if I'm reading your topic correctly, it's the primary crux of your request (i.e., "IS want some more of the MC pie."). Only the units get MC. To distribute MC is a decision made by the unit officers-the MC does not go directly to unit members by default. So even if you do take a planet, your unit officer is the person who decides whether or not you actually benefit as the individual for your unit's effort at taking said planet.

I am an officer of my team. We (the team) just want a chance to make more money for the team so that we can give it to players less fortunate then others. We have already discussed this amongst ourselves but if you were ever IS loyal you would know it is impossible to take planets with the current mechanics unless there is some special IS deal on (like new Civil War tech) and the population changes for a couple of weeks.

Quote

2. The maximum amount of MC that can be earned a day is not 900 MC-it's 270 MC.

This was already brought to my attention by Pat Kell and I already addressed this (read that reply for detail).

Quote

3. What exactly is "PGI funds?" If you're addressing the MC that units earn when they secure a planet, the only way to get this MC is by winning a planet...so it's up to Inner Sphere units to perform well enough to earn said planets. There are no rewards if you lose, and there shouldn't be.

PGI funds in this instance is the generated (from thin air) MC that PGI supply to players/teams for various reasons including taking planets p. Again, you are saying its up to Inner Sphere units to perform well. This makes me think you are missing the point of the post. The point being, Clan mechs are the better choice if you want easier wins and play competition formats, so its more beneficial for players to pick clan and this is resulting in too many top teams picking clan to often. This is why I linked (in a later post) Kcom and Evil IS to Clan contract stats which indicated these teams selected a Clan contract nearly every time.

I have an issue with this statement " There are no rewards if you lose, and there shouldn't be." The reason I have an issue is because there are days we don't lose all day and there are still no rewards.....Hopefully you are starting to see my point....

Quote

4. You are not "working under inferior conditions" because you are not an employee of PGI, nor an employee of Mechwarrior Online, nor are the conditions you are playing under any different from the conditions your neighbors are playing under, aside from the type of computer hardware you are using to actually play the game and the physical environment in which you are doing it. Unless you actually are under contract to play Mechwarrior Online from PGI or a sponsor in an electronic gaming league, as the individual who created an account and signed the End User License Agreement when you activated the game client for the first time, you are not being paid to play this game. You are not under an offer of employment that assigns you to a 40-hour-a-week schedule, nor are there 'wages' or 'tips.' You earn C-Bills based on your performance, but you can earn C-Bills in both Quickplay and Faction Warfare-or you can buy them with MC or real money or as part of Mech Packs. No one is forcing you to play. You can leave or continue of your own free will. You are not under contract.

I am hoping for you this part of your post was not serious. Firstly, the throw away lines about a Union and wanting more funds and tips was not literal, and if you think it was I have concerns.

Secondly, you missed out the fact as players, we cannot select the same mechs as Clanners and have different pings because this is one FPS title that has such a low player base that it requires players across the world to play against each other. I understand I can leave the game just as much as you could play more IS but you dont. What I am trying to do is point out a obvious floor in the development of the program which has already seen 50% of the top Kurita team quit and sees Clans win most weekends 100% of the MC planets while reportedly playing with long wait times.....

Quote

5. If you wish to 'organize a strike,' you are free to 'boycott' the game and attempt to organize a protest of your own volition, but I can guarantee you, attempts to do so have been orchestrated in the past and largly they have failed, with the exception of the static mini-map launch and the split-cue Faction Warfare attempt, both of which were rolled back within 24 hours due to the extreme negative reaction of the Mechwarrior community.

Lets agree to disagree on this one. I do think if several of the IS teams refuse to drop FW for a month it will force a a change. Its whether people care enough to take action and whether PGI understand the issues and how to fix them, or if they put it in the too hard pile.

Quote

6. Based on the If-Then statement of "If you want us to keep working under inferior conditions you need to increase our wages or tips!," you are demanding that if PGI wants you to keep playing this game, then they have to provide you some kind of increase in in-game rewards. Based on the statement declaring "IS want some more of the MC pie," you are asking PGI for bigger MC rewards in Faction Warfare. But the roadblock in your argument is that to get MC, you need to win the planet.

If PGI are the developers and they set the dynamic which requires MC why cant they just change it (they did to get this create this current issue)?....Ummmmm, let me give you a 30 second solution. Change the Planet win conditions to this. .... If over 90% wins, the faction who at or over 90% get 6 planets to be divided based on ticks and the opponent gets zero planets. 75% - 89% the faction who are wining get 5 planets and the opposing side get 1 planet for defence. 61% to 74%, the winning faction get 4 planets and the opposing side get 2 planets for defence. if either team are up to or under 60% winning (in either direction), both factions get three planets each. Oh look without much thought I just fixed some substantial issues and rewarded IS for putting up a fight....

Quote

Conclusion: If you want to reap the benefits of taking the planet...well, then take the planet. You know what you have to do.

I thank you for actually putting some context behind your statements and I do appreciate the work.

IS can't take any planets because IS mechs are inferior and we need superior numbers to make up for the inferior mechs.....to change numbers it takes significant IS rewards (like new tech) to get enough people over to play and this only lasts a short period of time.

[Fuerchtenichts]

justcallme A S H, on 17 September 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

As IS - You rarely get a chance to tag a planet. It is no more simple or difficult than that. Clan stacking will never stop as a number of lesser units (who just zerg rush objectives) ride the coattails of stronger ones winning the tougher fights to keep the bar @ 100% for Clan.

Guess that are the same mechanics as from the start of FP. If a faction (now IS vs Clan, before GB vs FRR or CJF vs Steiner) is able to provide more organized teams they will win. And even if you win in your time zone you can be damned sure to loose planets in the other ones.

At the moment it is just quite more obvious due to the one buckit, but I don't see a way to change this without a complete redesign of FP.

I guess you are simply mislead to mainly blame it on the tech, its us the players.

[Mi Ro Ki]

Commander A9, on 16 September 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

If you want MC based on the planets you take...well, then start taking planets.

We can win all day and still not take a planet. No issue to see here...

[MischiefSC]

To be fair, when KCom was IS last time we could literally win every match we played all day and not take a planet because pug teams would lose faster than we could win matches. This was always a problem when I was a Davion loyalist.

The fix is better IS/Clan tech balance. For a while, just before the skill tree, IS and Clan populations were closer and mercs switched a lot more. After skill tree and new tech it's a little more clearly favoring Clans and so mercs are gravitating that way. Additionally there's mercs who've switched to Clan loyalist to farm new faction LP.

Yes, pilot skill is always a core factor of someone's success. However I'll happily 1 v 1 anyone, even players who are better than me, with them in an IS mech and me in a Clan mech same tonnage or 5 tons less even. Even if they're a better player I'll still take that fight as the tech advantage is not insignificant.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Just spent a couple of weeks on the IS side and I do have say I can see the point with Coma's frustration. There is nothing IS can do if they can't get units to come over there. No shot at MC, etc... plus you have to play with IS pugs, which should be worth some MC or maybe a case of Jack Daniels sent to IS-side Units would be a more appropriate payout to keep them interested in dropping. The only reason to switch IS is to get quicker drops, but unless you can field a 12-man yourself or have units to partner with, you will have a lot more frustrations IS-side as it's harder to continually fight 12 man's with a 3-6 man's (being that we are historically Clan loyalists, we had guys without IS decks who couldn't really play with us for those couple of weeks) and random IS pugs.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 17 September 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Starwulfe]

I'm a big proponent of the MC pie being increased, then distributing it to all units based on participation. Planets tags still go to the top units. The planets themselves would have a smaller residual income for the taggers.
Then adding a Cbill pie that goes to all players based on participation, regardless of unit affiliation.
Which doesn't help IS currently.

IMO, the first things that has to be fixed is the population reporting so that we have a more accurate picture of player balance and so Mercs can get better rewards on the IS side.
A 2 week to a 1mo window of player activity.
On many threads right now, the majority of mercs are the the new clan factions because of the 50% bonus, even though there's a longer wait Clan side.
The majority of threads, emails, tweets, roundtables, etc to PGI should be about changing the pop reporting. In theory it should be a simple change to check last login date during the pop calculation.
Getting the population balanced would be a good first step in the IS getting planets more often.

[justcallme A S H]

Yep, said similar myself Star. The population % calculation has been borked since Merc career path was introduced. This is such a massive oversight by PGI. Not sure how it's still unresolved as it's the cornerstone of the issues. Granted fixing that one thing won't be a magic solution but it needs to start there.

MC per win/loss (1MC for a win, .5MC for a loss) and cap it @ 5MC a cycle - just as an example.
This way even if you are not planet tagging you are getting something. You put in effort and win, you get more.

Issue is the above, overall, still won't stop the heavy stacking.

IMO since Skill Tree balance is as close as it's been in a long time. IS ERML was a big game changer in for trading which IS struggled to do. The IS LPL Damage nerf though was, misguided. same as the cSPL really.

The problem is a LOT of IS units/players have not moved with the META shift since Skill Tree - Clan, nothing much really changed there the weapons just got a 3-4% range buff they never had before. Not a big game changer.

[Carl Vickers]

Thats cause most of those IS players who dont use the meta love da lurms.

Id be rich if I had a dollar for every match I played where there were 6+ Is lurm mechs in every wave. Add to that all the seriously bad derp builds that players bring thinking they can dominate but instead get dominated and then get all salty when they get their behinds handed to them time and time again.

Meh, tis what it tis.

[Lovas]

Lurm free or die!

[Mi Ro Ki]

It's a shame we can't all be snipers

[Carl Vickers]

Mi Ro Ki, on 17 September 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

It's a shame we can't all be snipers

Nope, just W key to win with SRMs like lemmings, much skill needed there too