341 replies to this topic

[Alvar Von Kenesthor]

Hemholtz, on 16 September 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Any word on what's the Oct 2017 and Nov 2017 mechs going to be? (if any)

May was Clan IIc heroes
June was Civil War: Escalation (Osiris, Nightstar, Artic Wolf, Nova Cat)
Aug was Thanatos
Sept was Hellspawn

In the last Stream, it was said that there were coming one IS medium (the dissapointing Hellspawn) and following that two clan mechs: a medium (Black Lanner or Rabid Coyote for sure since the Stormcrow is the only clan 55t medium and the class needs more variety) and a Light the next month (Please be Urbie-IIC, PLEASE BE URBIE-IIC, WE NEED THE URBIES!!!)

[Ovion]

Alvar Von Kenesthor, on 17 September 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

In the last Stream, it was said that there were coming one IS medium (the dissapointing Hellspawn) and following that two clan mechs: a medium (Black Lanner or Rabid Coyote for sure since the Stormcrow is the only clan 55t medium and the class needs more variety) and a Light the next month (Please be Urbie-IIC, PLEASE BE URBIE-IIC, WE NEED THE URBIES!!!)

Piranha has been confirmed as coming soon, so Clan light should be that.
We desperately need a clan 20T mech, as much as I'd love the UM IIC and will welcome our urbie overlords, that can come after the ankle biters release.

[Alvar Von Kenesthor]

Ovion, on 17 September 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

Piranha has been confirmed as coming soon, so Clan light should be that.
We desperately need a clan 20T mech, as much as I'd love the UM IIC and will welcome our urbie overlords, that can come after the ankle biters release.

I think that even being "PGI" and having the "Piranha" as a possible mascot, It doesn´t have enought variants to be in a full Mechpack, and it's biggest strenght of MG spamming has already been covered by the new Myst Linx and Artic Cheetah variants (And more or less the new Jenner-IIC hero too).

If anything, I think the Fire Moth (Dasher) would be the most appropriate due to the uniqueness of it's speed, hardpoint omnimech variety and arms that could easily work like the armpods of a Raven, that if at least the game engine is made stable enought to feature a mech that can run up to 216kph with MASC, which seems possible for a game engine almost 20 years old yet impossible nowadays, the wonders of Lostech in Battletech I guess

https://youtu.be/DUTdif5WIeE

Edited by Alvar Von Kenesthor, 17 September 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Ovion]

Alvar Von Kenesthor, on 17 September 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think that even being "PGI" and having the "Piranha" as a possible mascot, It doesn´t have enought variants to be in a full Mechpack, and it's biggest strenght of MG spamming has already been covered by the new Myst Linx and Artic Cheetah variants (And more or less the new Jenner-IIC hero too).

If anything, I think the Fire Moth (Dasher) would be the most appropriate due to the uniqueness of it's speed, hardpoint omnimech variety and arms that could easily work like the armpods of a Raven, that if at least the game engine is made stable enought to feature a mech that can run up to 216kph with MASC, which seems possible for a game engine almost 20 years old yet impossible nowadays, the wonders of Lostech in Battletech I guess

https://youtu.be/DUTdif5WIeE

The difference between the old game, and the new one, is that had a more suited engine to what it is, and FAR simpler graphics (a few dozen polygons per mech rather than a few to few hundred thousand), and their engine wasn't bolted on to CryEngine.

Also 8 isn't 12 MG's.

Besides, 3-4 official variants is better than some others.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

SPNKRGrenth, on 16 September 2017 - 10:11 PM, said:

Because mix and match is quite common when multiple things of a certain kind are on special offer? Because it's not buy two mech packs and get the third one free? Because the whole theme of these yearly events are based on how much you show your support for the game in a year by how much you invest into it? And because it's to encourage people to buy some more to get an extra goodie or two?

Your example of a certain company's bodywash actually supports my question funnily enough, buy so much of a certain brand and qualify for the offer of that brand.

I'm asking why PGIs qualifications for the top-tier rewards are the specific way that they are, not why I'm not getting them as is. I know it's not about the money, as you can get top-tier for as little as $50 from buying something like the Javelin Ultimate pack. What I am asking, is why 4 standard packs aren't considered comparable to 2 collector packs. Am I somehow considered less loyal?

I'm not blaming anyone for anything, claiming I'm being slightest for something, cheated out of something, have some special right to something, or any of that. I'm asking why some of the things in the online store count towards and help add up to the higher tier reward, while other things in the same store don't. If there's a decent or sensible reason for it, than great! And if not, well, then I'm merely intending to inquire how much it would hurt to include standard packs as something that would add up to the top-tier reward if you get enough of them, nothing more.

And why for the glory of Satan are you comparing physical objects that are often sold by competing companies, which have good reason to exclude similar products from other companies from a certain offer, to digital items of comparable type and worth all being sold by the same company? I'm asking about apples to apples, and you give me an apples to oranges example.

Am I wrong in asking why I'm seen as less "loyal", and am I somehow making demands while throwing around assertions? If I am then I do apologies. All I'm trying to ask is "Hey, I noticed these two things compare to each other, is there a reason why only one of them counts towards the thing?". If I came across otherwise then I'm sorry, as that's not my intent.

Dude, don't waste your breath. As long as there's a throng of white knights trying to brown-nose a for-profit company to score some brownie points, you're not going to get anywhere. For them, the argument ends at whatever is posted by the administration, because "they own the game and decide on the rules so that's how it is!" It doesn't even occur to them that a proposed system might have some inherent flaws in terms of design and fairness, and that it could be critiqued for the sake of a change for the better. In fact, they'll do their best to reach deep and scrape the bottom of the barrel for some false-clause arguments about how the structure of these rewards encourages people to spend their money in different ways. These are the same people who will go home and quietly unfriend you on Facebook and talk to your coworkers about you behind your back after you shake their entire worldview by saying something like "I don't use an iPhone because I am not a fan of some of Apple's company practices."

As I posted before, my personal issue with these rewards is the structure of the ultimate reward (although I fully acknowledge all of the other issues people have mentioned). I bought half a dozenfull collector packs in this reward period, but because I play IS only as a faction loyalist, I can't qualify for a reward that requires a considerably smaller investment, as long as you play both sides. This sucks, but probably not as much as it sucks for someone who's spent hundreds of dollars on standard packs and qualified for less than someone who spent a fraction of the money on collector packs.

They can so, so easily fix this by changing the system to something along the lines of...

ACTIVE PLAYER REWARD
Eligibility Conditions
You must have played at least 100 matches since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).

MECHWARRIOR CREDITS REWARD
Eligibility Conditions
You must have purchased any amount of MC* since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC)
etc etc.

REWARD LEVEL 1
Eligibility Conditions
You must have purchased any tier of any one Inner Sphere or Clan Collection* (or any Inner Sphere or Clan a la carte 'Mech**) since October 18th 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).
Rewards (choose one)

• Griffin GRF-5M Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.

• Kit Fox KFX-G Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.

REWARD LEVEL 2
Eligibility Conditions
You must have purchased any tier of any two Inner Sphere or Clan Collections* (or any two Inner Sphere or Clan a la carte 'Mechs**) since October 18th 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).
Rewards (choose any combination of two)

• Griffin GRF-5M Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.

• Kit Fox KFX-G Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.

REWARD LEVEL 3
Eligibility Conditions
You must have purchased:

• any one eligible Top-Tier Inner Sphere or Clan Collection* (or combination of eligible items**) since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).

or

• any tier of any three Inner Sphere or Clan Collections* (or combination of eligible items**) since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).

Rewards (choose one)

1

• Victor VTR-9A1 Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.
  
• 1 x Blue Giant Star Standing Item

2

• Linebacker LBK-H Loyalty variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) + 1 MechBay.
  
• 1 x Orange Star Standing Item

REWARD LEVEL 4
Eligibility Conditions
You must have purchased:

• any two eligible Top-Tier Inner Sphere or Clan Collections* (or combination of eligible items**) since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).

or

• any tier of any six Inner Sphere or Clan Collections* (or combination of eligible items**) since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC).

or

• a combination of any one eligible Top-Tier Inner Sphere or Clan Collection* (or combination of eligible items**) and any tier of any three Inner Sphere or Clan Collections* (or combination of eligible items**) since October 18th, 2016 at 10:01 AM PDT (5:01 PM UTC)

Rewards (choose any combination of two)

1

• Victor VTR-9A1 Loyalty Variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) +1 MechBay.
  
• 1 x Blue Giant Star Standing Item

2

• Linebacker LBK-H Loyalty variant (featuring a unique Loyalty Pattern and 30% C-Bill Boost) + 1 MechBay.
  
• 1 x Orange Star Standing Item

ULTIMATE REWARD
Eligibility Conditions
You must qualify for both the 2017 MechWarrior Credits Reward and the 2017 Reward Level 4 rewards listed above!
Rewards

• 1 x 'Apocalyptic Horse Statue' Standing Cockpit Item
  
• 1 x 'Apocalyptic Wolf Statue' Standing Cockpit Item
  
• 2 x Scottish Bagpipe Warhorns

There you go, problem fixed (I even weighed collector packs more heavily to appease that dude's concern, although by all means we can weigh them at a 2:1 ratio instead of 3:1 if that's the consensus). See how no one gets shafted this way?

[Horseman]

Or, crazy idea, perhaps just abstract the purchases to Reward Points and calculate eligibility based on these. Vastly simplifies the entire process for the user.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Horseman, on 17 September 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Or, crazy idea, perhaps just abstract the purchases to Reward Points and calculate eligibility based on these. Vastly simplifies the entire process for the user.

That would be the simplest, most efficient way to do this. It's pretty much how most reward programs work; you make purchases, earn points, and then select your prizes.

It would also take the path of most resistance due to all of the white knights.

[James Argent]

Call it white-knighting all you want, but at least explaining the reality of the situation isn't a 'but I wannit myyyyy way and you poopy pants meanies are making me all snot-dripping stompyfeet madmadmad' tantrum even AFTER they've expanded the type of purchases to make a lot more people's existing purchases qualify, and to make it way more palatable and inexpensive to meet the qualifications if they still didn't make it.

But you refuse to meet them halfway. They literally can't win with you unless the things you personally do already get you everything you want with no extra effort. If they did that for everyone, they'd have no reason to have a reward program at all...what makes YOU and YOUR purchases so special that they should build their reward program around you?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Ah, the old "White Knight" card. Great argument, 10/10, I bow to your superior... no, don't be a clown.

If people are going to behave like entitled children, I'll call them out for it.

I'm glad the policy changed, it made more paying customers happy, reduced salt levels and stopped a lot of entitled whine threads.

As for an alternative? I can't find the other 2 posts I made about it, so I'll re-type it here;

Swap to a "units" system

Wave I Masaraki pack = 16 units (2 per 'mech)
Wave II Man O' War pack = 8 units (2 per 'mech)
Wave III Gladiator pack = 8 units (2 per 'mech)
Resistance I Zeus pack = 8 units (2 per 'mech)
Resistance II Mauler pack = 8 units (2 per 'mech)
Origins IIC Highlander pack = 8 units (2 per 'mech)
Standard pack = 2 units
Collector's pack = 4 units (2 + 2)
Reinforcements Add-On = 2 units
Hero Add-On = 1 unit
Standalone Hero = 1 unit

Tier 1 IS / Clan reward = 4 2 units for that faction
Tier 2 IS / Clan reward = 8 units for that faction
Ultimate reward = 8 units per faction = 16 units total
OR
Ultimate reward = 32 24 units total (for Loyalists)

I've revised the alternative Ultimate reward total, as 32 was a little excessive and the Tier 1 total, to be more in line with this year.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

James Argent, on 17 September 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Call it white-knighting all you want, but at least explaining the reality of the situation isn't a 'but I wannit myyyyy way and you poopy pants meanies are making me all snot-dripping stompyfeet madmadmad' tantrum even AFTER they've expanded the type of purchases to make a lot more people's existing purchases qualify, and to make it way more palatable and inexpensive to meet the qualifications if they still didn't make it.

But you refuse to meet them halfway. They literally can't win with you unless the things you personally do already get you everything you want with no extra effort. If they did that for everyone, they'd have no reason to have a reward program at all...what makes YOU and YOUR purchases so special that they should build their reward program around you?

There's no "halfway" about it. The system I outlined would (on average) increase the amount of investment required to qualify for rewards while at the same time qualifying more people for those rewards.

But there will be those mathematically-inept individuals who are unable to see how the current system is critically flawed, and yet when they are explained how the system is flawed, and shown examples of how it can be made better, they will double down on whatever scraps they can get, because to do otherwise would be to admit their own incompetence. And that's why we get those "you should be thankful! they don't have to give you anything at all you know!" posts.

It doesn't just happen here, it happens everywhere. I see it happen in the downstairs buffet at work, where people pile $8.99/pound creamed corn into their takeout containers instead of reaching over to a shelf and buying a can for $1.19. But the second you ask them why, they will pile a litany of excuses and tell you how you don't know what you're talking about.

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 September 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

Ah, the old "White Knight" card. Great argument, 10/10, I bow to your superior... no, don't be a clown.

If people are going to behave like entitled children, I'll call them out for it.

I'm glad the policy changed, it made more paying customers happy, reduced salt levels and stopped a lot of entitled whine threads.

As for an alternative? I can't find the other 2 posts I made about it, so I'll re-type it here

We're literally arguing for the same thing (some kind of rational change to the system), and yet you defend those who consider you as much of an enemy as they consider me.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 17 September 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

We're literally arguing for the same thing (some kind of rational change to the system), and yet you defend those who consider you as much of an enemy as they consider me.

Even my friends don't like me, I'm used to it

[C E Dwyer]

stealthraccoon, on 16 September 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

To match those bring-back Arisakas we all have? Do we know those are the camouflage patterns, because I'm trying to figure out what is on my new Urbanmech.

I think it's either or a japanese fighting fish or a stylised snake on the Urby, and yes it's final art, the builds are not the ones we'll be getting though

[Nanostrike]

So...I bought a couple of Standard packs a couple of days ago because I missed the line about "Collector" level being required for the top tier reward.

If I upgrade them to Collector, will that count? I'd be fine spending a bit more for the C-Bill Bonus Collector mechs if it'll get me that reward level.

[James Argent]

Yes, that will count. They're even letting you upgrade standard packs from previous years and that counts too.

[Ertur]

So if I have the Timberwolf Clan Wave 1 collection already, and upgrade it with a $30 Warhawk, it counts for the top tier and I get a Linebacker?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

[Horseman]

Ertur, on 17 September 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

So if I have the Timberwolf Clan Wave 1 collection already, and upgrade it with a $30 Warhawk, it counts for the top tier and I get a Linebacker?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Most likely, given that the pattern we've seen with Collector upgrades is that only the date of the highest tier purchase matters.

Nanostrike, on 17 September 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

If I upgrade them to Collector, will that count? I'd be fine spending a bit more for the C-Bill Bonus Collector mechs if it'll get me that reward level.

Yes.

James Argent, on 17 September 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

But you refuse to meet them halfway. They literally can't win with you unless the things you personally do already get you everything you want with no extra effort. If they did that for everyone, they'd have no reason to have a reward program at all...what makes YOU and YOUR purchases so special that they should build their reward program around you?

Instead of making this a "YOU PEOPLE" argument, you consider that your question applies in both directions?

Players who spent exactly $167 in one specific pattern are treated as "best" customers. What makes that spending pattern so special that PGI should build their reward program around them?

Simple: nothing. Both of those groups spend money on the game. The loyalty program is, at its' core, supposed to reward spending money on PGI's product and incentivize continuing to spend money on it in the future. The implementation of it, however, has quite the opposite effect on customers who did not fit a certain arbitrary spending pattern.

Edited by Horseman, 18 September 2017 - 05:10 AM.

[Genesis23]

guys guys guys calm down. PGI updated the requirements, so the whole discussion is now, except maybe for a few details, pretty much pointless.

enjoy your annual rewards - i know i will enjoy the urbie

[James Argent]

Horseman, what makes that particular spending pattern so special is that PGI decided on it then announced it, without any prompting from the people who happened to already spend that way. The chips fell where they did. Then after TONS of feedback (although it seems not any more than they got about it last year) they loosened the requirements to allow a lot more people to qualify for the top-tier (and ultimate) reward levels. But that's not good enough for some people who expect to get the reward for completing both sides of the reward structure while playing (and paying for) only half the game. "I'm a loyalist who doesn't touch the other side, but I want the ultimate prize (which doesn't even contain a mech this year) that's given for supporting both sides of the game." Nope. Being a loyalist only impacts FW. Arbitrarily refusing to use 'the other side's' mechs in QP or Comp isn't required of a loyalist. PGI doesn't need to rearrange their entire reward program structure to satisfy the greed of a tiny minority of inappropriately roleplaying half-supporters, no matter how much they spend 'on their half.' I know I don't speak for PGI, but I'm pretty sure they want people to be able to appreciate (consider purchasing) ALL of the work they put into the game. The reward program requiring both sides provides some motivation to cross over. Not enough for some, but some people wouldn't ever be satisfied unless PGI looks at their specific spending habits before building the program requirements to ensure that they have to do exactly nothing to get everything.

I love the fact that they've expanded the eligibility to include hero/reinforcement purchases that way more people habitually buy. With the new requirements, the net change in spending required for me to move up from basic to top-tier, personally, is zero dollars. I'm still going to have to upgrade the Clan side to two Collector's Packs and the IS side to two more hero equivalents. But I still applaud the change because it helps a lot of customers and, with top-tier within easier reach for some people who wouldn't spend a lot to qualify, but would spend a little to do so, it helps PGI as well.

You are correct that at its core the Reward Program is about money spent, but that also goes both ways. By announcing the requirements while the eligibility window is still open, they hope to get people to spend some money they didn't already spend before the announcement specifically to meet the requirements. Make the requirements too strict (arguably what they've done before) and hardly anybody bothers to spend any money to qualify. Make the requirements too broad and NOBODY has to spend any money to qualify. The hope is that the 'free' stuff you get for purchasing things you wouldn't ordinarily is enough, through limited-time exclusivity and permanent pattern/CBill bonus advantage, to get you to justify purchasing them. A Reward Program with this second chance to qualify is more of a Reward Opportunity. Some will take advantage of it, some will decide it's not worth their money and get on with their gaming, and some will just cry about it.

[Dungeon 206]

Matt Newman, on 14 September 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Any 6 Heroes from those collections purchased within the specified dates.

Hey PGI,

for the Top Tier Clan Reward,

the criteria is any 2 eligible collector's packs
OR
any 6 eligible "ala carte" mechs

would 1 eligible collector's pack and 3 eligible "ala carte" mechs qualify?

cheers

[Fox the Apprentice]

Koniving, on 15 September 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

[...]
Seems a bit premature to know this.
[...]

The inability to mount 2 ECM on a mech was confirmed by PGI, but I'm too lazy to hunt down the post.