55 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

https://mwomercs.com...d-mech-loadouts


Left Arm: 2 Energy (Actuators: Upper)
Left Torso: 1 Energy
Right Arm: 2 Missile (Actuators: Upper)

... what the **** PGI? That's just 5 Hardpoints. Could we get another missile or another energy hardpoint please?

[Exilyth]

There are mechs which have even less hardpoints.

[MechaBattler]

That's how many the most Vindicators have. It does make it hard for boating light weapons. But I think it's workable.

[Scout Derek]

Pocket Awesome anyone?

[sycocys]

Seems like a pretty legit set of hard points for an urbie to me.

[Bombast]

Eh. One more missile hardpoint would be nice, as it would allow for an 'absolute' SRM boat, but 2 isn't bad.

With, say, 13 tons of space, thats enough for a SRM12A, MLx3, and two tons of ammo. That's not too bad, really (And I know there's room for improvement, just spitting out something on the spot).

Edited by Bombast, 14 September 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

If my math is correct (and it always is) the other Urbanmechs all have 6 hardpoints? So unless they are tossing on ECM ( a common reason to reduce hardpoints) it does seem like it is short by one?

[Bombast]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

If my math is correct (and it always is) the other Urbanmechs all have 6 hardpoints? So unless they are tossing on ECM ( a common reason to reduce hardpoints) it does seem like it is short by one?

Yes. 3/3/0, 4/2/0, and 2/4/0.

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock‏
@russ_bullock
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No way I can provide enough reasons in twitter but suffice it to say we debated balance wise on these mechs for like a month and here we are

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 September 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Bombast]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Russ Bullock‏

No way I can provide enough reasons in twitter but suffice it to say we debated balance wise on these mechs for like a month and here we are

Hmm. I guess Javelin level hardpoints don't mix well with the Urbie's armor buffs and 360 turn. I can see that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bombast, on 14 September 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Hmm. I guess Javelin level hardpoints don't mix well with the Urbie's armor buffs and 360 turn. I can see that.

Might could.

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Replying to @BishopSteiner
No way I can provide enough reasons in twitter but suffice it to say we debated balance wise on these mechs for like a month and here we are

Like we don't have a forum.

2M =/= ECM.

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 14 September 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Like we don't have a forum. 2M =/= ECM.

Cool. I guess next time I won't bother asking for clarification because people will complain Russ didn't run to the forums to do so.

Also just as a counter argument... no 2m don't equal ECM.

But since the mech has it in no guises, irrelevant. What 2M does do is stack with 3 E a lot better than Ballistics Hardpoints of almost any quantity. (unless we re talking 4+ for MG boats). One can pack much nastier alpha with 3E and 2 M than 3 E and 1-2-3 Ballistics. Because the ballistics all weigh so much.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 September 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

I noticed that, and I assumed before it would be a 2M/4E variant, but 4 E could actually supplant the K9 and JVN-10F as an energy boat, and for free/C-Bills (eventually). My only guess is there will be a few quirks to compensate, or the missile tubes are just THAT good.

Edited by stealthraccoon, 14 September 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Cool. I guess next time I won't bother asking for clarification because people will complain Russ didn't run to the forums to do so.

That's a remark to Russ. My bad.

Like he couldn't fit his reasons on twitter. We have enough space on the forums.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

What 2M does do is stack with 3 E a lot better than Ballistics Hardpoints of almost any quantity. (unless we re talking 4+ for MG boats). One can pack much nastier alpha with 3E and 2 M than 3 E and 1-2-3 Ballistics. Because the ballistics all weigh so much.

Wouldn't the lack of range while still being hot a drawback of it? What about the spread? Or if LRMs are used -- the drawback is that they are LRM?

The alpha might be high, but honestly I wouldn't be that concerned because it spreads so much around at a range, and then you have to get really really close to focus that.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 September 2017 - 03:53 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

stealthraccoon, on 14 September 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

I noticed that, and I assumed before it would be a 2M/4E variant, but 4 E could actually supplant the K9 as an energy boat, and for free/C-Bills (eventually). My only guess is there will be a few quirks to compensate, or the missile tubes are just THAT good.

again...compare 2Ms vs 1-3 B Hardpoints. How much firepwoer can you add comparing the two, and just as important, what leaves more tonange free for the E hardpoints. I don't think quirks matter.

Facts is, with 2M/3E you can reasonably pack more firepower than 3E/1-3B. With that being the case I wouldn't count on any quirks aboce and beyond what you already see represented on UMs.

The6thMessenger, on 14 September 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Wouldn't the lack of range while still being hot a drawback of it? What about the spread? Or if LRMs are used -- the drawback is that they are LRM? The alpha might be high, but honestly I wouldn't be that concerned because it spreads so much around at a range, and then you have to get really really close to focus that.

Lights are seldom used (effectively) at range outside the 2x ERLL Snipers...and those are debatable at best.

Lights are all about CQB backstabbing where the spread is a non issue. And the heat for 2x SRM6 is hardly crippling.

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Cool. I guess next time I won't bother asking for clarification because people will complain Russ didn't run to the forums to do so.

That's a remark to Russ. My bad.

Like he couldn't fit his reasons on twitter. We have enough space on the forums.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Lights are seldom used (effectively) at range outside the 2x ERLL Snipers...and those are debatable at best.

Also UAC5 and AC5 and their dps. The RACs, the LB10x, the AC10. I'd even count the GR, though that's already far behind the line of trolling.

The urbanmech defeats the expectation that lights are supposed to be fast, and have little equipment. I wouldn't treat it like most lights.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

Lights are all about CQB backstabbing where the spread is a non issue. And the heat for 2x SRM6 is hardly crippling.

Backstab with what? The speed the Urbanmech doesn't have? Oxides and Javelin, what do you think they have in common why striker builds work? Powerful as Urbie's armor may be, it's not like those fast mechs than can just get in and get out.

We also have MRMs and LRMs.

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 14 September 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

That's a remark to Russ. My bad.

Like he couldn't fit his reasons on twitter. We have enough space on the forums.



Also UAC5 and AC5 and their dps. The RACs, the LB10x, the AC10. I'd even count the GR, though that's already far behind the line of trolling.

The urbanmech defeats the expectation that lights are supposed to be fast, and have little equipment. I wouldn't treat it like most lights.



Backstab with what? The speed the Urbanmech doesn't have? Oxides and Javelin, what do you think they have in common why striker builds work? Powerful as Urbie's armor may be, it's not like those fast mechs than can just get in and get out.

We also have MRMs and LRMs.

And? You asked why I gave a potential, and accurate reason they have to consider. And DPS is crap in this game and you know it. It's all about the alpha. And yes, you can backstab fine with them, the most successful UMs are teh MG/Pulse laser mixes.

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

And? You asked why I gave a potential, and accurate reason they have to consider. And DPS is crap in this game and you know it.

DPS is okay to a point, i could pull it off because it's a lot safer from a distance than it is under 270m.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

It's all about the alpha. And yes, you can backstab fine with them, the most successful UMs are teh MG/Pulse laser mixes.

I would argue that it's the PPFLD Alpha, the one you can focus on a component. Like the meta people do it.

Lasers work because they are kind of in-cognito and not as noticable when hit, something you don't have to lead, and is a bit more consistent. SRMs is something you need to lead, something you need to get up-close and personal to use effectively, and once you do they are on to you due to the screen shake that alerts you to their presence. Oxides and Javelin deliberately use their speed to hit behind their targets, and stay behind their targets, at such a distance that would best focus all weapons at one component.

Also the MPL is still pretty okay at 330m without quirks. The SRMs not only spread so much already at 270m, you cannot use it beyond the range. So even though you think that MPL is a backstab build on the Urbanmech, it wouldn't be on par because it's still usable beyond the backstab range, it's the same case why UAC5 would work better over RAC5 -- because they are less screwed over meta-wise. There's also ammo, one ton for each 6 tubes at least.

Of course, I get that you can use both MPL and SRMs.

Sure, the Urbanmech can participate on backstabs, but really not at great effect the actual strikers and faster lights employ. Speed that allows them to reposition and get angles much faster, and engage-disenage, something the Urbanmech's armor doesn't compensate enough.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 14 September 2017 - 04:25 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 14 September 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

DPS is okay to a point, i could pull it off because it's a lot safer from a distance than it is under 270m.



I would argue that it's the PPFLD Alpha, the one you can focus on a component. Like the meta people do it.

Lasers work because they are kind of in-cognito, something you don't have to lead, and is a bit more consistent. SRMs is something you need to lead, something you need to get up-close and personal to use effectively, and once you do they are on to you due to the screen shake that alerts you to their presence.

Also the MPL is still pretty okay at 330m without quirks. The SRMs not only spread so much already at 270m, you cannot use it beyond the range. So even though you think that MPL is a backstab build on the Urbanmech, it wouldn't be on par because it's still usable beyond the backstab range. There's also ammo, one ton for each 6 tubes at least.

Whatever. I forgot I don't know how to use Urbies. My bad. Obviously there is no advantage to a multiple SPL or MPL 2x aSRM4/6 Urbie over one with a minimum 9 ton gun and it's minimum 2 tons of ammo to be viable... absolutely correct....

Thx for reminding me why I stopped bothering with the MWO forums though.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 September 2017 - 04:25 PM.