71 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Vote here: https://mwomercs.com...-to-balance-fp/

Problem: FP MC reward structure heavily favors units stacking one side in order to take planet tags. This creates a bad experience for all involved, and drives players out of FP.

Idea: Reward MC per match based on position of tug-of-war bar, with the winning side earning less.

Description: When tug-of-war bar is in the middle (50%), both sides get 1% of LP/RP earned as MC. (MATH below) As the bar moves, the winning side earns less MC linearly. At 75%, the losing side still earns 1% and the winning side earns 0.5%. When the bar hits 100%, the winning side earns 0% in MC.

I am not fixiated on 1%, it's just a nice round number. A typical FP match earns 500-1000 RP/LP, 1% of this equals 5-10MC per match. It would take hundreds of matches to earn a free hero mech, but it is consistent earning that doesn't require being one of the top 4 units on the winning stacked side. (If this is giving away too much MC, toss out the loyalty rank MC, which encourages grinding, stacking, and seal clubbing)

Result: Strong disincentive for the skilled players and units to stack one side, more balanced and competitive FP. Rewards players more for participating, with an overall better experience.

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 02 October 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[Scout Derek]

but then you are "shafting" Loyalists and Lone wolves.

[Nightbird]

Damn, I guess Faction Play is better off being one sided stomps

[Trenchbird]

Ha. Benefiting Mercs won't help with that. Only having PUGs git gudder than premades will.

Edited by Catten Hart, 14 September 2017 - 04:31 PM.

[Scout Derek]

NlGHTBlRD, on 14 September 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

Damn, I guess Faction Play is better off being one sided stomps

I mean, Quickplay is like that too. The game mode may change in a game but the players don't.

Edited by Scout Derek, 14 September 2017 - 04:34 PM.

[Nightbird]

No, Quick Play one sided stomps are determined by PGI's Match Maker, Faction Play stomps are because Units collectively make the decision to stack one side to tag planets. When pugs catch on and join that side, the units break contracts together and move to the other side. My suggestion ensures that this no longer happens, and if anything the units will intentionally move to balance the two sides.

Almost like we're money grubby mercenaries... now where have we heard that term around here...

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 14 September 2017 - 04:40 PM.

[Jman5]

I'm in favor of anything that gives equal or better incentives to fight for the losing side.

[Nightbird]

Jman5, on 14 September 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'm in favor of anything that gives equal or better incentives to fight for the losing side.

I suppose the losing side can pay out more rather than have every merc earning less MC. Good idea!

[Formosa The God]

No, As a merc player we get enough already, 50% bonus on Cbills is pretty damn good, give the loyalists an actual reason to be loyalists.

[Prototelis]

They should revise the loyalty trees to make them more attractive/less grindy.

I think scouting should also be revitalized and incentivized. People want small unit skirmish, give them small unit skirmish. Its a great place to learn unit tactics.

No one really plays the objective in scouting, because the game mode is kinda basic. Like what are you even looking for? Did Todd leave his keys at the base of one of those tripods?

When played as skirmishes the matches are quick, and usually fun. Make it hella rewarding and casual players will eat it up.

But that won't really fix the seal clubbing, and neither will any of the suggestions in this thread, which is the real reason faction play is kind of dead.

[DAYLEET]

NlGHTBlRD, on 14 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Vote here: https://mwomercs.com...-to-balance-fp/

The tug-of-war and planet tagging w/MC reward guarantees skewed balance. If the two sides are balanced, no one gets any MC, so you always want to stack one side or the other.

Sounds like adding mc rewards rather than game improvement was a dumb idea.

Edited by DAYLEET, 14 September 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[Nightbird]

Convincing players to group up and work as a team is not a problem this thread is proposing a fix for. This is a idea which if implemented should keep the strength of IS/Clan sides equal, which is the same as saying wins rates of 50% for both sides. Right now, the win rate for Clan is about 60%, and 40% for IS, which makes the entire IS side feel like clubbed seals. That been said, even if the win rate becomes 50% overall, the well organized units will still stomp randoms, but as mentioned this thread is not about fixing that (but propose your own idea for it!).

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Rather than a payout system that gives mercs more or less money depending on which clan or house they pick, I recommend having the system be faction wide and only count active players.

This would fix the issue with IS constantly having low payouts because of all the dudes larping as Steiner and Davion loyalists who never play FP but cause their faction to never have mercs helping them.

As for the faction wide part, I say that so that mercs don't just stack the most empty house/clan on one side without taking much of a pay loss.

I also recommend increasing the contract payout bonus heavily, like 5x higher, as it will be more equal anyway due to the faction merging on payouts. This raises the incentive to join the side with less people rather than camp out in one side.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Quote

To balance this, I would give mercs (not loyalists, just mercs) 1% of earned loyalty points as MC when the tug-of-war bar is right in the middle, decreasing to 0% linearly when it moves to one side or the other.

That sounds insane. Can you give an example how much is earned? By earned loyalty points you mean what exactly, earned mercenary reputation points? Per battle, or totals after each 8 hour phase?

It sounds like you want all mercenaries to get thousands of MC.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Jman5, on 14 September 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'm in favor of anything that gives equal or better incentives to fight for the losing side.

But if you give out better incentives to the side currently losing, they become the winning side. That is kind of the problem we got going on right now. The Mercs, myself included are running to whatever side they feel inclined to at any given time and the second they do so, that side becomes the winning side.

Honestly if anything, they need to give out better perks for being a loyalist. Now you might say then that Mercs get shafted but that wouldn't be even close to the truth as the one MAJOR perk they still receive is being able to easily change sides. I mean why should Mercs get both better rewards and the ability to switch sides at will? That doesn't make sense. On the other hand, being Loyal and getting the top perks and incentives makes alot of sense simply because you can't just jump ship the second balance changes or a perceived advantage shows up on the other side. Nope, your stuck so that should be rewarded.

[Spheroid]

Territorial control bonus + discrete fronts + unified trans national offensive and defensive bucket sharing(with home country bonus) would solve 90% of faction warfare problems.

The other 10% is assigning meaningful population numbers to those actually playing FP and removing the ceasefire timer to avoid one front stacking to the detriment all other planets concurrently in play.

Edited by Spheroid, 14 September 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[FallingAce]

NlGHTBlRD, on 14 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Vote here: https://mwomercs.com...-to-balance-fp/

The tug-of-war and planet tagging w/MC reward guarantees skewed balance. If the two sides are balanced, no one gets any MC, so you always want to stack one side or the other.

Yes, the tug-o-war is a broken game mechanic.

NlGHTBlRD, on 14 September 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Vote here: https://mwomercs.com...-to-balance-fp/

The tug-of-war and planet tagging w/MC reward guarantees skewed balance. If the two sides are balanced, no one gets any MC, so you always want to stack one side or the other. Now, Clans are winning every phase. Before this, all the good units rotated to IS side and Clans lost all of their planets.

Clans never lost all their planets.

Fact are:

• the I.S. has been the "winning side" for 2 weeks in the last 9 months. That was the 2 weeks after the new tech was released. The mercs moved en mass to the clan side and the clans have been winning ever since.
  
• The only other time the I.S. won any planet tags was at the end of season 4.1 when the mercs got tired of playing wait warrior and some actually moved to the I.S. side.
  
• Season 4.2 was the release of the skill tree the mercs were firmly planted on the clan side.

I will now quote my self from earlier in the year.

FallingAce, on 29 January 2017 - 04:27 PM, said:

You don't get it. Mercs are the ones that create the imbalance.



30% Clan 29 % I.S.
Looks pretty balanced to me.
Guess where the imbalance comes from?
The other 40%

"You don't get it. Mercs are the ones that create the imbalance. "

And now you want the mercs to be rewarded for creating the imbalance?

Aren't the +50 contract rewards enough?

[Khobai]

everyone who helped take a planet should get MC

shouldnt matter if youre a lone wolf, merc, or loyalist or in a unit or not in a unit

if you helped take a planet you should get MC


also lonewolves/mercs should have to commit to one side or another for the ENTIRE season. once they choose a side, no swapping sides should be allowed until the season is over. they could still swap factions on the same side. they just couldnt swap IS to clan or vice versa.

Edited by Khobai, 14 September 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

MC is this game's premium currency, making it part of what keeps it afloat. The more PGI cheapens the value of MC by increasing the number of ways to obtain it for free, the less people feel any need to purchase it and the faster this game accelerates toward its demise.

That alone makes this idea a non-starter. From a business sustainability point of view, it was already a horrid decision for PGI to hand out MC as rewards for owning planets and passing a rank. Worthy C-bill bonuses would have been sufficient.

[Khobai]

Quote

MC is this game's premium currency

MC is a garbage premium currency. you cant buy anything good with it. and its cheaper to just buy mechpacks than to buy mechs with MC. The only thing ive ever spent a considerable amount of MC on is mechbays and only when they were 30%-50% off. Nothing else is worth it.

If PGI really wanted to fix their financials then getting people to actually want to buy MC in the first place would be a good place to start.

Having a black market system where people can buy/sell in-game items for MC would be good too. That would allow people who cant buy MC to obtain MC by selling items to other players with MC. Although that would require that supply caches actually contain items of value.

Edited by Khobai, 14 September 2017 - 11:07 PM.