58 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

you guys know new players get a boost right

heard it on a pod cast

[Deathlike]

Sounds great, except it'll probably be like the last time where current players get nada (they adjusted cadet rewards, but didn't reward existing players).

You know... salt in the wound.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 September 2017 - 09:37 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Davegt27, on 19 September 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

you guys know new players get a boost right

heard it on a pod cast

Ah... what?

[Darth Hotz]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

The guys who only wind up doing 400 damage and dying by wave 3.

Wish I had these guys. Last games 4 to 5 in my team had below 250dmg...

Giving a 5th mech is not the answer. I still think you have to implicate an experience wall of 100 games (discussable number) or you reprogram the whole thing that you have a matchmaker based on leaderboard stats. But none of these option will look attractice to PGI. Either it will cut players or it will cause work.

[KuroNyra]

justcallme A S H, on 19 September 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

You been drinking mate?

I actually kinda like his suggestion.

It would give some guy a bit more chance of gaining experience. And since both side would have it. It could be a pretty welcome stuff.
Of course they could only come back in the mech they used the first time.

[TWIAFU]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Guys, here is the reality.

If you want the worst of the worst on your team do better than what do you suggest?

You may want the worse of the worse on YOUR team playing with an extra Trial mech to 'contribute', teamplayers in the teamwork queue do not.

These solo rambo's are already turning CW into QP with respawn and ruining it even further!

Nobody mentioned 'banning' these fresh installs from playing. What people want is these fresh install to learn the damn game first, then jump into the deep end.

What do "I" suggest, form a 12man and let these new players/fresh installs be seals to the Clans, 5 mechs wont matter and you know that too. 6 mechs won't matter. 8 mechs for a new player/fresh install might.

If these new players/fresh install are joining CW right off the bat then they deserve the rolfstomp until the learn to read the warning or learn to play the game.

Safety and security blankets are not welcome.

[TWIAFU]

KuroNyra, on 20 September 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

I actually kinda like his suggestion.

It would give some guy a bit more chance of gaining experience. And since both side would have it. It could be a pretty welcome stuff.
Of course they could only come back in the mech they used the first time.

Get your gaming experience in Solo and Group Queues, not in CW.

You know, kinda like how the warning box tells you....

[justcallme A S H]

KuroNyra, on 20 September 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

I actually kinda like his suggestion.

It would give some guy a bit more chance of gaining experience. And since both side would have it. It could be a pretty welcome stuff.
Of course they could only come back in the mech they used the first time.

If you have run in and died first, 4 times in a row - you have clearly not learnt a thing.

Is giving that player a reward for not learning, being bad, a good idea?

Absolutely not.

[Bud Crue]

Jman5, on 19 September 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

If you want the worst of the worst on your team do better than what do you suggest?

In answer to this question, the first thing I would do if I was Dev god for a day would be to provide a hell of a lot more positive reinforcement for new/terribads that rewards good performance on a progressive basis starting with an easily achieveable reward that increases incrementally. Throw in a title as well such as:

Event: Player does 300 points of damage in a single mech, they will get this reward again at 400, 500 and finally at 750.
Title upon completion of all 4: "Grown up"
Reward: Initial is 250K cbills corresponding to event damage goal, going up to the max 500K

Event: Player does 1000 points in 4 mechs, then 1500, then 2000, then 2500.
Title upon completion of all 4: "Weight Puller"
Reward: Initial is a million, then 1.5, then 2, then 2.5mil cbills. (Perhaps less (dramatically so?) but if the intent is to reward new players....the kind of players that likely need cbills to buy more meta style mechs and builds, I don't think this level of reward is out of line.)

Other incremental events/rewards could be based on number of kmdds per mech/match, number of savior kills, etc.
ANYTHING that rewards team play and incremental increases in performance in a dramatic manner, sufficient to motivate players to improve thier individual and team performance.

Over and above that, I would double rewards for CW (cbills, loyalty, planetary MC all of it) overall for wins, and triple them for losses. This has nothing to do with improving poor players performance, but rather to motivate more of the community at large to just play CW. But that isn't really the issue at hand, I just think it would help overall.

[Willard Phule]

So, obviously, the point of this is to somehow make the low hanging fruit last longer or contribute more to their team.

Here's a couple of ideas:

1 - a 1 million cbill bonus for the guy who is the first to run out of mechs. Helping them farm fake money faster will allow them to buy fake robots faster, which will ultimately get rid of the trial mech thing.

2 - use the PSR rating as a multiplier for damage. If a T5 guy joins a team with an impressive LRM boat and does 5 points per missile, maybe he'll live longer than 20 seconds. Probably not, but it couldn't hurt.

[Khobai]

if the guy that dies first gets a free fifth robutt then why wouldnt I wanna be the guy that dies first?

because free fifth robutt

people will actually COMPETE to die first lol.

Edited by Khobai, 20 September 2017 - 11:00 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Willard Phule, on 20 September 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

So, obviously, the point of this is to somehow make the low hanging fruit last longer or contribute more to their team.

Here's a couple of ideas:

1 - a 1 million cbill bonus for the guy who is the first to run out of mechs. Helping them farm fake money faster will allow them to buy fake robots faster, which will ultimately get rid of the trial mech thing.

Sorry, but horrible idea!

You want to give a mil CB to Leroy. Yea, great idea. Until you see the first pilot zerg into the enemy and die 4 times, leaving the rest of the team out four mechs and a loss. Great until you see a pilot Eject four times to get more money then playing CW to the end. Great up until you see a pilot run out of bounds four times to make more money then actually play.

ALL this does is encourage people to die fast and not play CW because 'playing' that way earns them more money then playing the whole match. Furthermore this royally screw the pilots there to actually play CW.

This low hanging fruit can do better by playing the game in QP and Group, in that order, BEFORE jumping into end game.

NOT pay them to screw over everyone on their team.

[Xaat Xuun]

instead of giving them a 5th, . . lock their 4th

nope that is not going to teach them anything either.
. . maybe . . there is some whistle that blows, and they get prompt to some faction war Training grounds . . oh wait there is nothing that really prepares someone new to FW . except experience players taking them under their wing for a session, . . well that's not going to work . . we don't have the maps available for that to use in Private lobby

Quick play is not going to teach tactics. QP is just a Team FFA, and the tier level in QP means nothing in FW, there is no Tiers in FW.

There is a need for a second Academy, A faction war Academy, just like the one we first start with, you can't play with others till it's done, and in this case FW button is locked till you have passed this FW Academy
till something like that, it's up to those that know , to teach/Train those that don't .. not reward or punish, like they are animals learning a new trick, or crapping on your sofa

[Deathlike]

Willard Phule, on 20 September 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

1 - a 1 million cbill bonus for the guy who is the first to run out of mechs. Helping them farm fake money faster will allow them to buy fake robots faster, which will ultimately get rid of the trial mech thing.

Why are you promoting something that PGI is totally against (AFK/suicide farming)? People have gotten banned (temp and perma) over this.

Just totally rethink what you are saying.

[justcallme A S H]

We had a bunch of PUGs mass eject/suicide the weekend just passed once they saw they were against a team.

Good thing was the whole match was recorded and sent to PGI. No doubt a bunch of salty PUGLords got warnings/bans over it. I've also started recording as its happening more and more. Plus all the abuse and hackusations I have to endure, yet I get warnings when I call these people out? Time to play the petty game of the petty individuals (in a team based game)

So yeah, don't be promoting that kind behaviour. It won't end well.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 September 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[Darth Hotz]

Deathlike, on 20 September 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

Why are you promoting something that PGI is totally against (AFK/suicide farming)? People have gotten banned (temp and perma) over this.

Despair?

[Exilyth]

Fire up MWO.
Look at the main screen (home tab).
Can you tell at a first glance there's a tutorial hidden behind the unconspicious button labeled 'mech academy'? No?

Maybe that's a large part of the problem?
Steam archievements stat page states tutorial completion at 48% of the playerbase - which is horribly low.

Meanwhile, there's this nice green button labeled 'faction play', urging you to push it...

[Vectoron]

I will preface this by saying that I've read many of the posts here, but not all. Quite a bit of people repeating others here. I may end up repeating them too.

Jman5 offered AN idea to balance FW. What I really think he is doing is getting the ball rolling in terms of FW balance discussion. Knock off the sarcastic posts, be respectful, and contribute to the conversation constructively.

With that out the way...

After some thought, I believe strongly that the fix does not lie in tweaking tonnages per tier. That would harm many unit strategies and deck setups, making pregame more of a chore than it already is for those who like to organize things properly.


Before I present suggestions. Understand that I view Faction Warfare as end-game content (Not Leagues). Much like raiding in WoW, or "Rated Battlegrounds".

I would like to offer two different suggestions, both usable with each other.


1. Tier Requirement for Faction Warfare.

I know this sounds harsh, but I feel strongly that a pilot must be at least tier 4 before entering any form of Faction Warfare. This ensures some level of exposure to the game and its basic mechanics before entering what should be End Game Content or (The Pinnacle of MWO gameplay). Combine this with at least 25 (or greater) Quick Play games required, and a pilot shouldn't be pulling potato level damage anymore. You should at LEAST see 600+ damage instead of 200.

Exposure is critical. Getting exposed before getting dunked is important.


2. True Unit Requirement for Invasion Mode (12v12) queues.

Lets face it, right now we can have Billy the New Blood create his own unit - and drop solo into Faction Warfare invasion as a lone-wolf. That just isn't right at all, obviously Billy does not care enough (or know enough) to find a unit and join a team. Therefore he should not even be in the Invasion Queue (which requires teamwork)!

If you force a team queue system much like what is currently happening in the Team Quick Play queue (where you need at least 2 players to drop into it) in order to drop into the Invasion Mode queue and force there to be at least two players from the same unit in a group in order to drop, you eliminate the problem of true pugs dropping into Faction Warfare.

At the same time, this places better emphases on the importance of being in a unit of an active unit. Which IMHO is grossly overrated still, although it is great to be a part of one for belonging sake.


If used in tandem, you can, and likely will, find better matches in Faction Warfare invasion.


Note, that pugs can still play Scouting. Thus still participating in Faction Warfare


Its all about making the Faction Warfare unit oriented.


Solution to known problem: Too many people don't know what forums are, and how to find a unit.

Joining a unit could be made easy by having a list of units provided in a self-determined ID system too (Casual, Underground "Semi-Competitive", Hardcore "Competitive"). Create an interface in MWO for unitless pilots that gives a brief description of the unit - they drop a message to the "Recruiters" in the group via a message unit button, and they go from there... really not a hard concept...

Edited by Vectoron, 21 September 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Deathlike, on 20 September 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

Why are you promoting something that PGI is totally against (AFK/suicide farming)? People have gotten banned (temp and perma) over this.

Just totally rethink what you are saying.

Dude. I was being sarcastic.

Frankly, there's no reason for new players to be playing against experienced ones, and if PGI had the ability (both mental and physical) to separate them, that would solve the entire problem.

Instead of separation by things that actually make sense, we get this PSR nonsense. Easiest way I can think of, and this is coming straight from potato level, is to use GXP earned and W/L ratio as some kind of modifier. Yeah, I know it's not perfect, but it hits the most important points.

First of all, odds are good that if you've got 1,000,000 GXP earned, you probably know most of the important basics. Yes, I know, there are the special few out there that still don't know how to move forward after that point, but they're rare. If you use the W/L ratio after that to separate them further, you won't end up with brand new guys in trial mechs against guys with fully modified and skilled ones at the very least.

But, the problem is that PGI caters to it's lowest common denominators since player retention is so low. Gotta make it easy for the new guys whenever possible. Their inability to separate players makes that virtually impossible.

[justcallme A S H]

Vectoron, on 21 September 2017 - 04:55 AM, said:

1. Tier Requirement for Faction Warfare.

I know this sounds harsh, but I feel strongly that a pilot must be at least tier 4 before entering any form of Faction Warfare.

Tier means nothing in MWO. It's akin to an experience bar, not an actual ranking of ability.

There are plenty of pilots in T1 / T2 that quite simply should be in T4 / T5. Likewise some in T4 that should be higher (but they don't play often, so can't rise as easily/fast).