66 replies to this topic

[naterist]

justcallme A S H, on 02 October 2017 - 05:11 AM, said:

Sorry but you get a big fact ZERO for credibility on that one when you said this not even a week ago:




Stomps happen in NBT.
Stomps happen in FP.

Are they both avoidable? Yes.
Is one "better" at the other at avoiding it? Not really.

Is it just a simple fact there will always be someone better than you at something. Either you seek to improve, or you do not.

Because its nuansed, and it apllies a little thing called 'lore' those options arent available to the clans.

[justcallme A S H]

I'm not sure what LORE has to do with you claiming there aren't stomps in NBT, which by your own words there are.

But anyway, carry on as you see fit. Just know that there is no amount of backpeddaling will get you outta that one.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Revisiting this in light of the actual event being announced:

It might be a minority report to be positive on the event...but it does seem much better than I personally expected it to be. Admittedly, my expectations were very low.

I am positive on it because:

1. Loyalists and Mercs of all factions can participate and get decent rewards for the effort involved. 12 scouting matches isn't that hard to do for some MC and a mech bay ....for those who want to do it the quickest
2. Loyalists of the 2 factions get stuff hard-core loyalists like...paint, decals, cockpit items. It's a small bone to those that just love, love, love their faction. Stuff that doesn't matter to many players, but stuff that will be nice for those that want that stuff and didn't want to spend MC on it.
I was also concerned that Merc's would just pile in loyalist for the weekend (as soon as they come off contract), to rack up extra rewards.....however Idk if the rewards are really juicy enough to make giving up 5+ million extra c-bills (contract bonuses) to do it. So, at least it's kind of a trade off.... but I would still expect some Mercs to go loyalist for the week....time will tell.
3. PGI is way late with this, but it's happening...so, I am just taking it not being "forgotten" as a win

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Yeah it is not as bad as expected.

But as some honest criticism, every loyalist worth their salt should already own the stuff they are giving away.
(beside the paintjobs (if by example the "Item:Smoke Jaguar Mist Lynx" is a paintjob))

Edited by Dark Wooki33 IIC, 11 October 2017 - 03:19 PM.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

justcallme A S H, on 02 October 2017 - 04:42 AM, said:

If you think stomps happen any less in NBT, then you are just outright ignorant.

Did I mention Stomps when promoting NBT?

Why dont you find a healthy venue to challenge all that anger at instead of trying to create a strawman?

[justcallme A S H]

Peoples #1 issue with FP is - stomps. That is indisputable.

In FP stomps happen.
In NBT stomps happen.

Are you really going to get that much of a better experience and avoid this #1 issue? No.

There is no strawman, there is only pure fact.

And nothing against NBT / Xavier etc. I know the guys well, but at the same time I am also not ignorant to the reality of a nondivision based league.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

*redacted*

Edited by Poptimus Rhyme Wallace, 11 October 2017 - 09:02 PM.

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 11 October 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

Peoples #1 issue with FP is - stomps. That is indisputable.

In FP stomps happen.
In NBT stomps happen.

Are you really going to get that much of a better experience and avoid this #1 issue? No.

There is no strawman, there is only pure fact.

And nothing against NBT / Xavier etc. I know the guys well, but at the same time I am also not ignorant to the reality of a nondivision based league.

No, #1 issue with FW is lack of purpose and content. All the units, the hordes of units, the thousands and thousands of players who filled FW 1, were grown up enough to realize that sometimes you lose to a better team and had no issue with it. They played again and again and again and worked to get better. Davion had the highest population of any faction - are you saying they were always winning? Oh **** no. However they were there for the promises that were never kept and so left as the promises were ignored or just flat out broken and PGI just took a piss on FW repeatedly. Long Tom (for months and months), 1 bukkit eliminating the point of factions, etc. etc. At this point we had less waiting pre-1 bukkit.

Of those who are left, the dedicated hardcore 'I refuse to change/improve/get even slightly better than I am today and I only play FW like it's QP' puggles have stomps as their #1 issue because they steadfastly refuse to do anything, anything at all, like roll over in bed sort of anything, to avoid them.

Honestly the best conceivable thing for the game, the best possible conceivable thing, would be to kick every one of the 'I play FW like it's QP pug' out of the game, require grouping up to play FW.... and add in all the depth and logistics promised originally so all the units (well, all those who could be bribed to come back) come back.

It's a dream I don't expect to come true but it's still a good dream.

[justcallme A S H]

Back 18 months ago, it was certainly depth/content because population was much higher and it reduced the stomps as there was a lot more team vs team games, larger units slogging it out against each other etc. Given FP3.0 delivered none of what was expected/promised, that is was the nail there.

However, IMO, it's ended now up changing to stomps now being the main one (due to such a low population). One of the big reasons for the stomps is peoples flat ignorance to the mode itself, but, those players are unwilling (will never) change for whatever reason. They just prefer to complain rather than improve... Each to their own on that one I guess.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 11 October 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

No, #1 issue with FW is lack of purpose and content. All the units, the hordes of units, the thousands and thousands of players who filled FW 1, were grown up enough to realize that sometimes you lose to a better team and had no issue with it.

justcallme A S H, on 11 October 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

Back 18 months ago, it was certainly depth/content because population was much higher and it reduced the stomps as there was a lot more team vs team games, larger units slogging it out against each other etc. Given FP3.0 delivered none of what was expected/promised, that is was the nail there.

All this shows is that while there is perhaps some disagreement with what the primary problem with FP is right now, or how the problems of FP have evolved and grown over time; but lets be clear FP has so many problems that it is irrelevant to try and argue about what is tantamount. Imho they all have built on each other.

No point in going into this again (PGI obviously doesn't care...just look at their pathetic "effort" at a special event we are about to be presented with...consider this "special event" in the context of what CW was originally promised to be or even what Russ said it was going to be in the January round table. Pathetic is the only word for this state of affairs), but from my perspective it all starts with PGI's over promising, folks getting excited to play based on those promises, PGI not delivering even a hint of what they said and then having the audacity to either restate those promises (phase 1 and phase 2) or move the goal posts (phase 3 and phase 4). Lack of balance, 1 bucket, no depth, their stated indifference to the mode, etc. all are just symptoms of PGI's horrid horrid messaging and lack of consistent and expressed vision for this mode. In the end, because they don't care, we stopped caring.

[dr3dnought]

MischiefSC, on 11 October 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

Of those who are left, the dedicated hardcore 'I refuse to change/improve/get even slightly better than I am today and I only play FW like it's QP' puggles have stomps as their #1 issue because they steadfastly refuse to do anything, anything at all, like roll over in bed sort of anything, to avoid them.

Honestly the best conceivable thing for the game, the best possible conceivable thing, would be to kick every one of the 'I play FW like it's QP pug' out of the game, require grouping up to play FW.... and add in all the depth and logistics promised originally so all the units (well, all those who could be bribed to come back) come back.

It's a dream I don't expect to come true but it's still a good dream.

I guess I am one of the puggles you are mad at for ruining your special thing. I get that, and I honestly don't like ruining your special thing. I only play FW during events. I'd play more but I know how much you guys don't like pugs. I think the FW modes are fun and playing with a drop deck is a nice change from QP. But much like rolling over in bed, I can't be bothered joining a unit, at least for the time being. The game is fun enough for me solo.

From reading through a few of these threads it seems you dedicated FW players like unit vs unit games the most. I as a pug like pug vs pug games the most because pug vs unit is nearly always a stomp. So why not just have a solo queue and a group queue in FW? It doesn't need a matchmaker, pug v pug is fun atm without one. It doesn't even need to affect the map since we're either not in units or in 1-man units so we're never going to control planets anyway. It gives new players a chance to learn the modes. It means pugs can complete events without ruining it for the units.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but not in any of the threads I read.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

dr3dnought, on 12 October 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

I guess I am one of the puggles you are mad at for ruining your special thing. I get that, and I honestly don't like ruining your special thing. I only play FW during events. I'd play more but I know how much you guys don't like pugs. I think the FW modes are fun and playing with a drop deck is a nice change from QP. But much like rolling over in bed, I can't be bothered joining a unit, at least for the time being. The game is fun enough for me solo.

From reading through a few of these threads it seems you dedicated FW players like unit vs unit games the most. I as a pug like pug vs pug games the most because pug vs unit is nearly always a stomp. So why not just have a solo queue and a group queue in FW? It doesn't need a matchmaker, pug v pug is fun atm without one. It doesn't even need to affect the map since we're either not in units or in 1-man units so we're never going to control planets anyway. It gives new players a chance to learn the modes. It means pugs can complete events without ruining it for the units.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but not in any of the threads I read.

There have been several folks posting on various threads advocating for this...so, it's not a new idea. No matter what ones feelings about this are, the reality is there isn't the FW population to support separate group and solo queues in FW. Russ himelf tweeted a response to someone asking for this on twitter last week, overtly saying that. He wishes we could...but population issues...so it's a no-go....

Therefore, barring the population for this game mode taking off, it's not on the table from PGI's point of view. Just is the reality of the game.

[dr3dnought]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 12 October 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

the reality is there isn't the FW population to support separate group and solo queues in FW.

Well if you need pugs or you don't have your game at all then I won't feel so bad about playing. I'll probably start doing some drops outside of events just for fun.

Also if population is the issue then why is there a warning saying you probably shouldn't play? That scared me off, at least until there was a FW event that I didn't want to miss out on.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

dr3dnought, on 12 October 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

Well if you need pugs or you don't have your game at all then I won't feel so bad about playing. I'll probably start doing some drops outside of events just for fun.

Also if population is the issue then why is there a warning saying you probably shouldn't play? That scared me off, at least until there was a FW event that I didn't want to miss out on.

FW is more competitive than Solo QP, so it's good for new players to know that they are wading into deeper waters. Which to me was the attraction actually. Of course I was a new player and got stomped.. but that just motivated me to find a way to get better, so I stuck around. For the record: they did have a solo queue at the start of FW 3.0 (when we had a bigger population) but for a variety of execution reasons (with 3.0) it didn't take.

We absolutely need new blood in FW...so, stick around...yes, you will take some lumps, but if you group up (and get on Teamspeak) and want to learn how to win here it's the best way to shorten the learning curve. 07 would be glad to have you along for some drops if you are interested...just come by our TS channel on Strana Mechty

[dr3dnought]

Thanks, I might just figure out this teamspeak business and take you up on that.

But that's the other thing, the process of finding and joining a unit is all done outside of the game; on the forums, reddit (and not an official reddit as far as I can tell) and teamspeak. That is a real barrier to entry when combined with the 'you should be in a unit' warning. It's like 'great... how do I do that?' The fact that I've read and posted on the forum speaks volumes about how much I enjoy MWO. I'm more invested in this game than any other multiplayer game I've played. Anyone less into it than that probably won't bother jumping through those hoops.

Oh and only one unit that I've played with in FW actually used in-game voice comms to speak to us pugs. If more did that I think you'd have better games with pugs when you can't get a 12-man. I'm more than happy to follow orders but it's hard to know what you want us to do if you don't tell us (Not you specifically, units in general)

[naterist]

dr3dnought, on 12 October 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Thanks, I might just figure out this teamspeak business and take you up on that.

But that's the other thing, the process of finding and joining a unit is all done outside of the game; on the forums, reddit (and not an official reddit as far as I can tell) and teamspeak. That is a real barrier to entry when combined with the 'you should be in a unit' warning. It's like 'great... how do I do that?' The fact that I've read and posted on the forum speaks volumes about how much I enjoy MWO. I'm more invested in this game than any other multiplayer game I've played. Anyone less into it than that probably won't bother jumping through those hoops.

Oh and only one unit that I've played with in FW actually used in-game voice comms to speak to us pugs. If more did that I think you'd have better games with pugs when you can't get a 12-man. I'm more than happy to follow orders but it's hard to know what you want us to do if you don't tell us (Not you specifically, units in general)

Holy ****, its like my past self from 2 years ago is talking on the forums.

[tenchugecko]

PGI is placing many Obstacles between You and the actual Game

[Commander A9]

Question still stands.

Does the actual 'battle for luthien' take into account only Kurita and Smoke Jaguar loyalist wins and losses to decide control of the planet?

[Leggin Ho]

dr3dnought, on 12 October 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

Well if you need pugs or you don't have your game at all then I won't feel so bad about playing. I'll probably start doing some drops outside of events just for fun.

Also if population is the issue then why is there a warning saying you probably shouldn't play? That scared me off, at least until there was a FW event that I didn't want to miss out on.

Solo's are welcome to play FP, there are some great one's out there and group up in game and follow the team and play as a part of the team, then you have the other's that run solo, play solo and die quickly solo, or hide and use the team as extra armor and still score poorly, so long as you attempt to follow calls in drop from whoever is calling then please continue to drop in FP, drop over by Comstar TS you don't have to join, but solo's drop with KCom all the time if there's room.

[MischiefSC]

dr3dnought, on 12 October 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

I guess I am one of the puggles you are mad at for ruining your special thing. I get that, and I honestly don't like ruining your special thing. I only play FW during events. I'd play more but I know how much you guys don't like pugs. I think the FW modes are fun and playing with a drop deck is a nice change from QP. But much like rolling over in bed, I can't be bothered joining a unit, at least for the time being. The game is fun enough for me solo.

From reading through a few of these threads it seems you dedicated FW players like unit vs unit games the most. I as a pug like pug vs pug games the most because pug vs unit is nearly always a stomp. So why not just have a solo queue and a group queue in FW? It doesn't need a matchmaker, pug v pug is fun atm without one. It doesn't even need to affect the map since we're either not in units or in 1-man units so we're never going to control planets anyway. It gives new players a chance to learn the modes. It means pugs can complete events without ruining it for the units.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but not in any of the threads I read.

Just finished a FP match and we were an 11man and 1 pug.

He dropped, stuck with us the whole match, took good mechs and played at the front with us. He was great - if we didn't have other KCom people to fill in I would have recommended sending him an invite. He also got like 3 kills and over 1200 damage, which is hard to do playing with KCom - believe me, I know, it's always a race to get your damage in and get kills.

Conversely in an earlier match we also had a pug. We were assaulting Vitric. He took a Dire Wolf wave 1. He barely pushed in way behind us, he sniped a few shots then ran back outside to wait for our 2nd wave. He didn't actually die until someone called him on it and on wave 3 he followed us in. I think he got like 600 damage, maybe 500, that whole match.

That guy? Terribad. Guy 1? A good pug. I'd take guy 1 with me on any drop any day, pug or not. Guy 2?

Guy 2 is really common. Frustratingly common. You have to keep reminding yourself that you're not 12 people; you're 11, and one largely worthless guy you can't count on to carry his own weight or put any real effort in.

We fought really hard to have pugging an option in FW when it was announced. I pugged hundreds of matches as an IS loyalist back in FW1 and 2, back when Clans were just insanely OPAF. We knew when we pugged that it was on us to put in the extra effort to take good mechs and try and fit into the teams we dropped with.

We want you to play and have fun and play with us and against us and do well and be a challenging opponent. There was a time when we would lose a match to a pug team. It was always uncommon but it happened. There was a time when we would drop in smaller groups with pugs to max our wins and flip planets (back when that mattered). Now though people play FW like it's QP and don't want to adjust, don't want to change, don't want to put in that extra effort or rise to any challenges. They don't want to play to their team, they don't want to bring good mechs.

You play like guy 1 and you pug your *** off. Go nuts. Will be happy to see you every match. You play like the other guys and yeah. Nobody is going to want to play with you.

Be someone people want to play with. It's a 12 v 12 team game. That's not unreasonable.