29 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Jun Watarase, on 21 September 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

Lore explanation : The cockpit filters out explosions so that pilots can return fire effectively.

I'd really like to find out what kind of filter can see through large amounts of flying bits of metal, ceramic, and other matter.

[nehebkau]

mogs01gt, on 22 September 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Looks like you are missing the point.

If the projectiles arent hittng the head, they it shouldnt blind you.

Looks like you are missing the point ... the whole tactic with these weapons is to shoot as NEAR the cockpit as you can aim... if you hit arms, legs, lower body, back -- no blinding effect. If someone is getting blinded by these things they are either:

1. A horrible pilot who cant twist and wants to face-tank everything
2. Fighting against a great gunner who is keeping that thing as near to your cockpit as they can.
3. Experiencing uber haxors trying to harsh you from your mellow with their l33t haxor skills. HAXS!
4. PGI is actively watching your game and purposely messing you up because they secretly hate you.

[Mole]

Why do you think you should be able to see while being shot repeatedly by explosive shells? Please explain this to me. Suppression is a thing IRL that militaries have entire tactical maneuvers revolving around. Autocannons are very good at suppression. The faster they fire, the better they are at it. The whole idea of supression is to be putting so much fire downrange that the enemy is effectively blinded because they are too busy seeking cover to see what you are doing.

Edited by Mole, 22 September 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[Roadbuster]

The funny thing is that you get blinded even if someone is shooting your leg.
I'm fine with blinding if you are hit near the cockpit, but not if you get hit anywhere.

The mirror of my car darkens if someones headlights hit it. And 1000 years in the future, the cockpit of a walking war machine with a fusion engine, can't see through smoke...

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Yeah RAC blinds way too much.

[Willard Phule]

Mystere, on 22 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'd really like to find out what kind of filter can see through large amounts of flying bits of metal, ceramic, and other matter.

By lore, not all cockpit visuals are provided by looking out a window. Some mechs have viewscreens as well as windows, or use them exclusively. I don't know about you, but I can adjust my viewscreen (monitor) to show everything in lovely shades of purple if I like. One would assume that they'd be able to do the same, a couple of thousand years from now.

Makes you wonder if the effect is less if you switch to thermal. I don't bother because it's easier to simply get out of the line of fire, but it's worth a try.

[Shifty McSwift]

Roadbuster, on 23 September 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

The funny thing is that you get blinded even if someone is shooting your leg.

I am not sure it is THAT bad, but that's half my point of the discussion is asking how impactful others have found it to be, I myself noticed it when twist tanking in fights with RACs, no matter where they seemed to hit me, as long as they hit, there would be a momentary blinding effect, which is why I even brought it up.

There is a difference between an intended effect of a weapon and an unintended one, and we don't really know if this is or isn't one, it is just currently the case. Is it too much or is it perfect? Is a blinding effect a good design choice in general, and good for this gun specifically? Etc, etc. I don't want to polarise the binary positions of yay or nay here, it is a discussion.

nehebkau, on 22 September 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

The ONLY thing that makes the weapon even marginally usable is the blinding effect. Do you understand the concept that prolonged face-time is a bad thing? The RACs are all face-time and without the blinding effect they are a big "SHOOT ME IN THE CT PLEASE!" weapon. If you remove the blinding effect, these weapons are entirely useless. And only marginal because most non underhive players can simply shoot through the flashes...

So yes, removing the blinding effect from a weapon, where aiming to hit near the cockpit with them to cause the blinding effect actually takes a lot of skill, will render the weapon useless and is, BY ITS VERY ESSENCE, a nerf.

To the idea that the gun should blind due to its facetime, that is fair enough, but why doesn't it also apply to AC2s, MGs, LRM streams etc? These weapons actually do have to hit near the cockpit to cause any kind of similar blinding effect and are also similar to the facetime nature of RACs, even short and heavy streams like the UAC20 double tap burst doesn't seem cause an anywhere near similar effect, but maybe that is just an optical illusion in how the guns fire slightly differently.

And with that argument in mind, do you feel it still applies when people are saying it can be ignored/fired through?

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I'll be honest, this is why I tend to use them (to blind/bully the opponent). I get into 1 vs 1 situations and use at least two of them (normally with lasers in case they jam up). I think the flash effect on the receiving end is ridiculous. If they reduce it, they should reduce it for all weapon effects.

It's my favourite gun by far but being on the receiving end of it recently, I couldn't see s***. The only choice is to run, and an Assault mech running away from a medium mech when both are fresh ... nuff said.

I'd say don't touch the weapons but adjust the flash effects for sure, they don't need to disappear but the size needs reducing, they are over the top.

[mogs01gt]

Mystere, on 22 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'd really like to find out what kind of filter can see through large amounts of flying bits of metal, ceramic, and other matter.

The pilots in Lore didnt see through a window or cockpit glass. They saw through their neuro-helmets using the computer of the mech. The mech's sensors would provide them with a computerized image of the battlefield.

nehebkau, on 22 September 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Looks like you are missing the point ... the whole tactic with these weapons is to shoot as NEAR the cockpit as you can aim... if you hit arms, legs, lower body, back -- no blinding effect. If someone is getting blinded by these things they are either:

Looks like you cannot read. That is what I said. If the point of impact isnt on the cockpit, then the pilot shouldnt see any "blinding" effects from the weapons.

Edited by mogs01gt, 25 September 2017 - 06:11 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Lore and realism just don't really come into it that much for me, that doesn't mean I want us equipping unicorn guns that fire sparkle rainbows, but talking about realism too much breaks down when someone points out we don't even have rear view cameras or mirrors, and lore breaks down in other messy ways all over the place.

The main points come down to;
Is it the intent of the gun to have this effect?
Is the effect too much or just right?
Why does is it seem so specific to RAC, is it because the way the gun functions or is it the explosion animations?

And for me; Should total/temporary blinding to such a complete degree be an effect at all? Partial blinding and messing with sensors I can get behind, but losing vision for long periods is comparable to being shut down in ways. You kind of just lose any sense of control after a while of it.