127 replies to this topic

[Verilligo]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

If you can't tell now, I couldn't care less about what people think about me.

..... You haven't thought this through. Rotary ACs deal 1dps per ton with considerable heat and a jam chance, while Clan MGs deal 2dps out to 130 with no heat, no jam chance and basically unlimited ammo. Their damage is fine, it's their crit ability that's out of whack. They're already a dps monster, they don't need an OP crit chance stacked on top of it. HMGs absolutely need more ammo/ton, I actually made a post about that, but LMGs and plain MGs are crazy powerful right now.

Uh... you think that cMGs are DPS monsters? Against armor? I'm sorry, but I don't believe your argument is backed up by data. The only reason they're viable against internals is that they DO crit.

[adamts01]

GrimRiver, on 25 September 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

DPS monsters?

That's news to me, guess I'm gonna go replace all the AC5/LB5/UAC5 on my mechs now.

I guess all the 5 rating AC's will also get a nerf too since my CTF-4X 4xAC5 can pump out 20 damage every 1.34 seconds if people want a GH limit to effective DPS builds?

Educate yourself please. A MLX runs 8dps with 2 tons of MGs or 11.2 dps with 4 tons of guns. And that's with 0 heat in a 20 ton chassis. The weapon isn't weak. But then we get back to the boating issue. 2 MGs is weak but 8 is strong as ****. The only answer is a cone of fire to compensate for 8 weapons firing at once on a tiny platform. But yeah, MGs are an incredible dps monster for the tonnage.

[Prototelis]

Crying is OP.

PGI plz nerf the tears

[adamts01]

Verilligo, on 25 September 2017 - 10:46 AM, said:

Uh... you think that cMGs are DPS monsters? Against armor? I'm sorry, but I don't believe your argument is backed up by data. The only reason they're viable against internals is that they DO crit.

Clan MGs are 2 dps per ton, with zero heat and an insane ammo pool per ton. No other gun even comes close to matching the tonnage/dps efficiency of an MG.

[MechaBattler]

Even just 4LMGs make weapons go very quick. So either they can tone crit down or they can buff weapon/component health up. Perhaps a bit of both to prevent it going into extremes. Then give the MG line something to shore up the crit reduction. More ammo for HMGs? A little more damage for LMGs and MGs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Educate yourself please. A MLX runs 8dps with 2 tons of MGs or 11.2 dps with 4 tons of guns.

Yes, and requires constant face staring at a shorter range to do just that on a mech that has arms that just pop off; I'm not seeing the problem.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 September 2017 - 10:54 AM.

[Mystere]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Educate yourself please. A MLX runs 8dps with 2 tons of MGs or 11.2 dps with 4 tons of guns. And that's with 0 heat in a 20 ton chassis. The weapon isn't weak. But then we get back to the boating issue. 2 MGs is weak but 8 is strong as ****. The only answer is a cone of fire to compensate for 8 weapons firing at once on a tiny platform. But yeah, MGs are an incredible dps monster for the tonnage.

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Clan MGs are 2 dps per ton, with zero heat and an insane ammo pool per ton. No other gun even comes close to matching the tonnage/dps efficiency of an MG.

You keep harping about tonnage. What about range?

MechaBattler, on 25 September 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

Even just 4LMGs make weapons go very quick. So either they can tone crit down or they can buff weapon/component health up. Perhaps a bit of both to prevent it going into extremes. Then give the MG line something to shore up the crit reduction. More ammo for HMGs? A little more damage for LMGs and MGs.

I have a better idea: have MGs ignore armor and just do internal damage (i.e. armor piercing). That's a good exchange for loss of crits.

Edited by Mystere, 25 September 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Thorqemada]

No, they need to spread damage increasingly the more MGs you Mount bcs MGs are not pinpoint weapons AND they need more range: 125 # 250 # 375m

[MechaBattler]

Mystere keeping his suggestions so reasonable :3

[Mole]

I still can't believe there are people out there talking about how MG boat lights are useless against armor when they have 20 points or more of laser damage to strip your armor with so their MGs can work on your internals. It's simply a blatant falsehood that you're safe from an 8LMG Mist Lynx or a 6LMG Arctic Cheetah if you armor up. One of those 8MG Mist Lynxes will be through 40 points of armor in about six seconds with just lasers alone.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mole, on 25 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

One of those 8MG Mist Lynxes will be through 40 points of armor in about six seconds with just lasers alone.

Guess how long it takes to get through his armor for a majority of mechs (including other Mist Lynxes) and often at longer ranges than ones he is even a threat at?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 September 2017 - 11:11 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Educate yourself please. A MLX runs 8dps with 2 tons of MGs or 11.2 dps with 4 tons of guns. And that's with 0 heat in a 20 ton chassis. The weapon isn't weak. But then we get back to the boating issue. 2 MGs is weak but 8 is strong as ****. The only answer is a cone of fire to compensate for 8 weapons firing at once on a tiny platform. But yeah, MGs are an incredible dps monster for the tonnage.

LMG/MG need 0.5 tons of ammo per gun, HMG need 1 on per gun. Any less is a waste of tonnage for the weapon.
So that's;
8x LMG/MG + 4 tons ammo = 6 tons
8x HMG + 8 tons of ammo = 12 tons (MLX only has 11 free tons with 0 armour, ACH can do it with 0 armour)
Without lasers (or SRMs) to crack open armour, you are as effective as an SRM2 or Micro Laser build.

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Clan MGs are 2 dps per ton, with zero heat and an insane ammo pool per ton. No other gun even comes close to matching the tonnage/dps efficiency of an MG.

Insane ammo pool per ton? Play an MG only Light, heck play a HMG only Light for extra lulz, then tell me they have an insane ammo pool per ton...

Mole, on 25 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I still can't believe there are people out there talking about how MG boat lights are useless against armor when they have 20 points or more of laser damage to strip your armor with so their MGs can work on your internals. It's simply a blatant falsehood that you're safe from an 8LMG Mist Lynx or a 6LMG Arctic Cheetah if you armor up. One of those 8MG Mist Lynxes will be through 40 points of armor in about six seconds with just lasers alone.

Maybe because these people don't mention lasers (or SRMs), just how OP they think MGs are?

[GrimRiver]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Educate yourself please. A MLX runs 8dps with 2 tons of MGs or 11.2 dps with 4 tons of guns. And that's with 0 heat in a 20 ton chassis. The weapon isn't weak. But then we get back to the boating issue. 2 MGs is weak but 8 is strong as ****. The only answer is a cone of fire to compensate for 8 weapons firing at once on a tiny platform. But yeah, MGs are an incredible dps monster for the tonnage.

Do you even use the MLX-G?

16 armor on the arms that can be blown off by any alpha and it's the slowest 25 ton mech in the game.

Not to mention you have to constantly keep you aim on the target to even do any amount of meaningful DPS, which is far more demanding than keeping aim on a target with RAC's, all the while you're exposed to being shot at by the target or his teammates.

1 alpha from 4xSRM6 does much more damage in a shorter amount of time than 8xLMG/MG/HMG and that 4xSRM6 alpha can kill MLX-G too, even 4xSRM2 does better.

[Shifty McSwift]

Mole, on 25 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

I still can't believe there are people out there talking about how MG boat lights are useless against armor when they have 20 points or more of laser damage to strip your armor with so their MGs can work on your internals. It's simply a blatant falsehood that you're safe from an 8LMG Mist Lynx or a 6LMG Arctic Cheetah if you armor up. One of those 8MG Mist Lynxes will be through 40 points of armor in about six seconds with just lasers alone.

By what people have been saying here the DPS is much higher than I had originally thought, I think in practice though you have a constant fire weapon with low optimal range, going up against things like SRMs and even lasers which can hit then twist.

That MG dps is high but it can end up all over the place I guess.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Damage per ton is telling that MGs aren't really crazy when it comes to ammo pools:
LMG = 175 DPT
MG = 200 DPT
HMG = 140 DPT (one of the many reasons the HMG is the crappiest of them all)

[Kaeb Odellas]

GrimRiver, on 25 September 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

Do you even use the MLX-G?

16 armor on the arms that can be blown off by any alpha and it's the slowest 25 ton mech in the game.

Not to mention you have to constantly keep you aim on the target to even do any amount of meaningful DPS, which is far more demanding than keeping aim on a target with RAC's, all the while you're exposed to being shot at by the target or his teammates.

1 alpha from 4xSRM6 does much more damage in a shorter amount of time than 8xLMG/MG/HMG and that 4xSRM6 alpha can kill MLX-G too, even 4xSRM2 does better.

It's not the raw damage that's annoying. It's the instant loss of any and all equipment the moment armor is stripped. I'd be totally fine with increasing MGs' raw DPS or range if they got rid of the crit bonus

[InfinityBall]

Curccu, on 25 September 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

I'm ok with removing crit thingy... just double or triple DPS, remove spread +add more ammo/ton and range for HMG

Let's see... triple the DPS and 6 CHMG would do far more DPS than 2 RAC5 while producing no heat and weighing 17 tons less. [edit: more DPS even if there were no RAC jamming mechanism, I believe]

I don't like an 80m range, but... I'd have to exploit the heck out of that

Edited by InfinityBall, 25 September 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[Koniving]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

They're dps monsters already. I'm fine with crit seeking weapons, but not at the range and effectiveness of what we have, especially for such a small tonnage investment. I've actually been arguing for a MLX buff fore 2 years, but this is just stupid.

Want some fuel for that fire?

The only mech that outdid my Annihilator is the MLX sporting a bunch of MGs.



So yeah, lets fan those flames.

[Verilligo]

Why is it that a Mist Lynx doing more damage than an Annihilator is proof that the 8 MG Crit Lynx needs to have its MGs nerfed? With how easy the arms on a Mist Lynx come off, maybe the light pilot was just that good?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Verilligo, on 25 September 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

With how easy the arms on a Mist Lynx come off, maybe the light pilot was just that good?

Or more likely, all the other players are just really bad, making him look good in comparison.