94 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:

Try actually using it ingame.

I guess all the IS units i see using black knights must be "doing it wrong" then. ROFL.

Given I've played 100s of games in both mechs, I have tried and I am telling you, you're wrong. Just like everyone else will over the next 4 pages.
Do you even own Black Knights? Played 100s of games in them?

And please, post screenshots of mass units bringing BLKNTs to FP. I'd love to see it.

However in said screenshots I can tell you now there will be more WHM/GHP/BLR etc. Why? They have much higher mounts.

[Krivvan]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 08:09 PM, said:

I guess all the IS units i see using black knights in FP must be "doing it wrong" then. ROFL.

Units running it in FP especially so isn't really any indicator of what's "right" or "wrong." If FP is an indicator of what works then the meta is apparently ATM Hunstmen and Annihilators.

[Nightbird]

They're not terrible

Stats are kind of messed up, I sold my non-R variant and only use the ® for the most part, whatever

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 25 September 2017 - 08:36 PM.

[El Bandito]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Uh...what? Black knights are one of the most common mechs in FP for a reason.

Not only this guy is a Clan apologist, he is also an outdated Clan apologist.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

I like all of my black knights, Dont own a warhawk so cant comment on that, and in FP? Wouldn't know, I don't play that shtuff. Most of mine run std engines, and speed tweak with a decent bit of survivability. Ends up with iirc a smidge over 100 front ct armor with 6 -7 rear armor. Its always a nice stroll around Grim plexus in it.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I like the Black Knight hero since I can make him a giant Yen-Lo-Wang with that ballistic arm mount.

[Dark Wooki33 IIC]

Hmm, from my experience they only work in fp if you have lots of them and simply bummrush the enemy with wubs or lasvom first or second wave.
But lets be honest if you have a big group going and intend to make it close and personal, tankier orions may be even better or depeding on the map the added mobility of grasshoppers.
Nobody ever would(should? ) suggest the bkn to a new player that is starved on bays so you wont get a big group of them in most cases anyways.

Still, it is somewhat sad, that the bkn are getting dusty/growing a patina from never using them.
And i have to agree, the Knight of Colour is a beautiful mech, one of the better looking IS ones.
(Dont have the hero bkn, but they look intresting.)

[kapusta11]

6B at least has firepower, until PGI revomes its 10% heat gen quirk of course. You can fire two alphas of 3 LPLs and 6 ERMLs before overheating.

[JC Daxion]

As someone that didn't play them till this summer.. The BK-6 and partisan are my highest rated mechs. It even surpassed my thunderbolt 5SS though i think that is partly due to me just being better now. I do find them pretty fantastic. I do own a warhammer too, which is similar but i don't find it any more of less effective really.


Yes they have lower hard points, but the mechs are more of a brawler, than a poker. Folks are just kinda set in there ways.. the mech plays more like an atlas than anything. they put out great damage, and can manage heat well.

If you brawl, hard point height is not as big of a deal as most make it out to be.

[Bud Crue]

Snazzy Dragon, on 25 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

Its role is being worse than clan laser vomit "equivalents," obviously!

This may be true, but I am just looking for a reason to play the thing period. Clan or IS, it just seems so much of a shadow of its 2015 self that I'm better off taking just about any other energy vomit heavy, save maybe a Grasshopper 5N or 5J, which have the similar limitation of crap height hardpoints and quirks that do nothing to encourage play over other mechs like the 5J or even Warhammers, thunderbolts, or those that I mentioned in my OP.

[Paigan]

Bud Crue, on 25 September 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

TLDR: what in the holy hell is the role/function/niche of the Black Knight in this era of the game? What can it do that another mech can't do better?

[...]

I have never once looked into the Black Knight, but bringing up Smurfy's, skimming through the quirk list for 2 minutes and then firing up the Mechlab brought this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69034d5623499cb
(or slight variations, of it. Like 325 engine, normal or pulse lasers, AMS, etc.)

There is no other 75 tonner where you can have that much lasers at that speed AND with -10% heat.
So that would already be one "role" (keep in mind that is as "role" as it gets for most Mechs in MWO. The niches are very, very thin for almost every Mech).

Some comments:
- hardpoints might be low, but so they are on a lot of clan Mechs, too. TBR, WHK, etc. Don't only compare drawbacks of IS Mechs to advantages of Clan Mechs. Compare both for both.
- This Mech is basically a Clan Mech. 2-slot XL engine, good speed, lots of ER lasers. What it lacks in DHS amount it compensates with the -10% heat quirk, so even that is pretty similar.
- The TBR has no more quirks to speak of and is generally no longer "good" due to engine decoupling and stuff. You hardly see them anymore.

All things considered, your post is mostly whining and apparently mostly based on the refusal or the inability to read quirks and figure out a suitable loadout. I suggest improving on that instead of ranting. Of course there is always the alternative of playing intellectually less demanding games where you don't have to engineer your character as complexly as here, if that suits you better.

Edited by Paigan, 26 September 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Kanil, on 25 September 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Still a little confused, here.

This is all good and well, but if I am going to compare the BK to a clan Assault, I think I would be well, foolish to do so. At most one ought to compare the BK to other IS builds, and when comparing across tech to other 75 ton clan builds. If you want to go there the relevant question is, is the BK comparable to the Timber or the Night Gyr?

But even this, like the very notion of comparing the BK to the Warhawk is all a digression.

I am not trying to get into a pissing match over clan v IS (and frankly I don't care about tech differences), I am trying to understand just what is it that the BK is useful for that some other mech doesn't do better regardless of tech. I have lovely builds on all mine. They do all right. But my Thunderbolts do brawling better, by Warhammers and Grasshoppers energy vomit, so too Timbers. I guess I think that the BK needs something to give it some joie de vivre, and extra sensor range aint cuttin it.

Alas, after going through all the post it seems the answer really is, it doesn't have much of a role (despite som folks thinking it is still some sort of mainstay in CW. Btw, I don't play CW very often, but when I do I rarely ever see BK's anymore. If there are all these units still supposedly running them en mass, please identify them so that I can reach out to these folks and see what they love about the BK over the other mechs mentioned thus far) and I, with a heavy heart will shelve them (but I may keep 1 active, again just for how great it looks).

[Wildstreak]

Knight may not have all meta qualities but is fine.

[Bud Crue]

NlGHTBlRD, on 25 September 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

They're not terrible

Stats are kind of messed up, I sold my non-R variant and only use the ® for the most part, whatever

No they are most certainly not terrible. I just think they are boring and want them to have a bit more distinction...I think that's all this comes down to....the BK is just another energy boat in a weight class that has dozens of other energy boats, and without something to give it some distinction there is no reason to take the thing. I think that is what I am trying to get at.

As it is, I do OK in them (as good as I do in anything...that is to say, not very good but not particularly worse than any other), but when I am selecting a mech to play, and decide to play an exclusive energy build heavy, they are rarely the mech I turn to. Just because I am me I will almost always first turn to a Quickdraw 5K, then if we need to fill tonnage, I will look at a Tbolt or Grasshopper. If still I am forced to run a 75 ton IS mech, I will look to my Marauders or Orions; and if I decide I am in a clan mood I will take a Timber. Never does it pop into my head: "take a Black Knight! They are so much fun/good to play!"

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 September 2017 - 03:46 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Paigan, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

I have never once looked into the Black Knight, but bringing up Smurfy's, skimming through the quirk list for 2 minutes and then firing up the Mechlab brought this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69034d5623499cb
(or slight variations, of it. Like 325 engine, normal or pulse lasers, AMS, etc.)

There is no other 75 tonner where you can have that much lasers at that speed AND with -10% heat.
So that would already be one "role" (keep in mind that is as "role" as it gets for most Mechs in MWO. The niches are very, very thin for almost every Mech).

Some comments:
- hardpoints might be low, but so they are on a lot of clan Mechs, too. TBR, WHK, etc. Don't only compare drawbacks of IS Mechs to advantages of Clan Mechs. Compare both for both.
- This Mech is basically a Clan Mech. 2-slot XL engine, good speed, lots of ER lasers. What it lacks in DHS amount it compensates with the -10% heat quirk, so even that is pretty similar.
- The TBR has no more quirks to speak of and is generally no longer "good" due to engine decoupling and stuff. You hardly see them anymore.

All things considered, your post is mostly whining and apparently mostly based on the refusal or the inability to read quirks and figure out a suitable loadout. I suggest improving on that instead of ranting. Of course there is always the alternative of playing intellectually less demanding games where you don't have to engineer your character as complexly as here, if that suits you better.

Perhaps my post is a whine. But yours is nonsense.

I made no comparisons to clan mechs other than in the most general sense of if I want an energy vomit mech I have choices, and those choices include mechs on the clan side, that like those on the IS side are more interesting than what the BK offers. This isn't a debate about clan v IS (why do you people always go there when that question isn't being asked?)

As to the sole constructive aspect of your post, a 5ERML 2ERL build on a chassis that can in fact do a hell of a lot better than that is very thoughtful, but is it truly your assertion that this one build, a build that can also be done on a Grasshopper and Warhammer and even a Thunderbot (and all with far better hardpoint height) is that one special thing that gives you joy in playing the BK? That this one build is done so much better on a BK that you will choose to play this BK over all other heavy energy vomit mechs if given your druthers? I some how doubt that. But in the spirit of keeping an open mind, I will plop it in on all the mechs I mentioned, and compare them this evening. Perhaps you are right and this is the answer to my question/whine.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 September 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Athom83]

Paigan, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

I have never once looked into the Black Knight, but bringing up Smurfy's, skimming through the quirk list for 2 minutes and then firing up the Mechlab brought this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69034d5623499cb
(or slight variations, of it. Like 325 engine, normal or pulse lasers, AMS, etc.)

There is no other 75 tonner where you can have that much lasers at that speed AND with -10% heat.
So that would already be one "role" (keep in mind that is as "role" as it gets for most Mechs in MWO. The niches are very, very thin for almost every Mech).

Would be all and good except for the fact that your wearing you weapons on your belt.

Paigan, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

Some comments:
- hardpoints might be low, but so they are on a lot of clan Mechs, too. TBR, WHK, etc. Don't only compare drawbacks of IS Mechs to advantages of Clan Mechs. Compare both for both.

True the BK's weapons are the same height of the ground as equivalent clan mechs, but the mech overall is about twice as tall with larger hitboxed and can be ST'd out easily.

Paigan, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

- This Mech is basically a Clan Mech. 2-slot XL engine, good speed, lots of ER lasers. What it lacks in DHS amount it compensates with the -10% heat quirk, so even that is pretty similar.

Except for the fact the LFE is far heavier, you don't have over 20 DHS similar clan mechs would have, and that IS equivalents of the ER lasers are worse than clan ones.

Paigan, on 26 September 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

- The TBR has no more quirks to speak of and is generally no longer "good" due to engine decoupling and stuff. You hardly see them anymore.

Tell that to the 2-3 I see every match. The TBR never needed quirks to get by while the BLKN needed them to not be absolute ****.

[tatersaladftw]

Really enjoy my hero version, the partisan. I run an AC20, 4 mediums, and 2 light PPC to great effect. However, I do find myself cursing the large size and low slung arms every other match. They're good for a change of pace and I use them as large mediums by rushing in and gap closing.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I brought Black Knight to my IS dropdeck over Grasshopper, as both were on sale. It's difficult to use due to those hardpoints being low. If others attack it can tank well and maybe better than grasshopper, but it's difficult to poke with. Haven't really used it much. Too much team dependant.

[Lily from animove]

you can do the borg tagger

Edited by Lily from animove, 26 September 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[Damnedtroll]

With the nerf a while ago worsening things, the black knight just felled in a crack...

Still, in a flat city like battle he do quite good but on hilly situation it's a disaster.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 26 September 2017 - 06:01 AM.