64 replies to this topic

[Curebores]

I bought the EBJ-A for the ballistics challenge that's going on right now and can't say I'm very impressed with it.

Sure it can bring ALL the guns (if you disregard heat or have a 12 button mouse) but that counts for nothing when it can't take a hit to save its life (literally). It seems that any other mech you come across, from light to assault, can take it to pieces before you can get maybe two or three volleys off, if you're lucky (even at max armour, agressively front loaded), which is ridiculous for a supposedly heavy mech. I feel tankier in my damn Raven... I really want to like the mech, but dying immediately the instant you meet the enemy gets old fast.

So, any tips for how to do better in this mech, does the skill tree help, or is this thing just a lemon?

[Verilligo]

You're playing it wrong. The reason I know that is because I cannot for the life of me manage to survive and do well in the EBJ and I've pretty much pinned that down to an incompatibility in playstyle. What the EBJ thrives with is using its high torso mounts to hit targets while being safely in cover. In fact, you basically have to get good at shooting at targets you may not necessarily be able to SEE because your mounts are just that high. That and overwhelming damage are pretty much the EBJ's schtick, when you're doing a push your best defense is a strong offense or, barring that, an ally that looks more threatening.

You can also use typical torso twisting to help spread damage, but your nose is pretty much always going to be easy to hit, even with a portion of it actually covered up by side torso hitboxes. At least, this is what my personal experience has shown me.

[Trissila]

So don't meet the enemy.

The EBJ's selling points are its very low profile and its very high mounts; even the arm mounts are nearly cockpit-level. It is designed for ranged ridge-humping. If the enemy is able to fire back at you with anything other than standoff weaponry, you dun goofed. Peek up and poke, then immediately drop back down and find a new angle to poke from to keep the enemy guessing as to where you are. Don't try to trade against firing lines that aren't busy shooting other things. This is also where heat comes into play; you can afford to let off huge alphas that need time to cool down, because you should be spending time repositioning anyway. The EBJ is a spear; you thrust hard from the side, then back off and do it again later.

If you want to battle the enemy openly, the EBJ is not the correct 'mech to do that with. Arguably the Clans are not the right techbase to do that with, but there are other Clan 'mechs that are much better in that role than an EBJ.

[Arend]

Well Ebon Jaguar is not a good Ballistic Mech, best Builds for the Ebon Jaguar are Classic Laservomit or Gaußvomit Builds

These Builds work great for me:

Gaußvomit:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ec4b14bbfd3e962

Laservomit:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...13b1d4d4762085d

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's not fragile. It's still a clan heavy with the benefits of cXL. If you get cored out you deserved it

[Curebores]

So it's relegated to being a back line (waaaaaaaaaaay back line) sniper then or banking on the incompetence of the enemy, seeing as since everyone knows you are bringing the big guns and die to a stiff breeze you are going to get focused on sight?

Also, I do torso twist. Doesn't really help much because it's got barn doors for ST (with an XL in them), rabbit ears, and a long nose that's all CT. Anyone that can can aim at all can take you to pieces from any angle.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Some other folks will come along and probably say it better...but it's a "trading mech"....high alpha laser vomit is what it does fantastic with and you want to play it like a pro boxer. Stick and move...deliver your blow and take nothing in return...or take a merely a glancing shot. If you stand in front of your opponent and take shots on the chin...you won't last 10 secs..

Offense is what it does...if you want a tougher Clan 65 tonner to fit a play style for brawling...the linebacker is far more survivable

You ever hear top players talk about what they put on their brawling Ebon?? There is a reason...it just doesn't work well

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

EBJ is a glass cannon, but its also a great peeker due to having all those high mounts. Your goal when running it is to peek and poke, don't face any enemies directly, just pour damage into enemies who aren't looking at you or are occupied shooting someone else. Also punish enemies during their reloads, let them shoot someone else, then you peek out and put an alpha into them quickly before they reload.

You can also clean up decently end game when your health is still high from being a peeker and enemies are usually on one shot health with your large alpha damage.

As Marquis said, the mech's a trader, it can hold ballistic builds, but generally your best bet is high alpha. Ballistic builds will be harder to use, requiring that your team is pushing and that you are in a second line support role while high alpha builds let you peek out a bit more often to pad damage.

[Scout Derek]

Let's remember it's a 65 ton mech with little to none quirks that benefit it's survival.

It's like a poor man's Timberwolf, less armor and overall tonnage but same amount of pod space.

[Curebores]

Thanks for the replies. Like I said I bought it for the ballistics challenge (it's my only clan mech currently), so I suppose I'm stuck with having bad games in it until that's over with. Particularly the machine gun one. Fun times ahead... (Those come stock... What were they thinking?!)

[Arend]

Curebores, on 26 September 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

(Those come stock... What were they thinking?!)

Stock Builds are Table-Top Builds where the Geometry of the Mech means nothing!

[Commander A9]

Don't know what you guys are talking about. I brawl with my Jag-Delta all the time. It works great!

[McGoat]

225k/59d - 83w/41l across the chassis.

I think the mech is just fine, though I don't have the dee yet.

[CraneArmy]

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I think before quirks, all mechs of the same weight have the same total armor / structure.

EBJ has good maneuverability, good hitboxes.

The only bad thing about the ebj imho is that it has ferro.

[Jackal Noble]

Snazzy Dragon, on 26 September 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

It's not fragile. It's still a clan heavy with the benefits of cXL. If you get cored out you deserved it

Yes Snazzy, the Ebon Jaguar is fragile especially compared to its IS constituent.
The EBJ is a lot of things, but being tough ain't one of em.
This is my mech. I am it. I have a metric ton of drops, and a lot of em are in the Ebon. I know her inside and out, I know how to play to its strengths.

Edited by JackalBeast, 26 September 2017 - 09:13 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

CraneArmy, on 26 September 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

Someone correct me if im wrong, but I think before quirks, all mechs of the same weight have the same total armor / structure.

EBJ has good maneuverability, good hitboxes.

The only bad thing about the ebj imho is that it has ferro.

Wrong. Ebj is a great mech but it has extremely easily isolated hitboxes. Lrm fire? Legs, gone. Direct fire? Right to the bulbous ct. Have any weapons in the STs? If it's anything more than one energy point, you suddenly have an extra easily isolated and horrible hitbox.

[FantasticMrDark]

The Jagermechs heart bleeds for Ebon Jag.

[Jun Watarase]

EBJ is a classic example of bad hitboxes + no durability quirks. It's only saving grace is that it has the tonnage/hardpoints for laser vomit. When you are doing massive alphas at medium-long range, bad hitboxes is less of an issue. In all other cases, the bad hitboxes allow someone to single out a side torso or the CT easily. The CT can even be hit from the sides, so torso twisting doesn't work if your opponent aims for the nose.

On the other hand, look at a mech like the grasshopper : Humanoid profile, shield arms, high torso mounts, durability quirks, cockpit located ontop of the mech instead of center mass. One of the most common mechs in FP for a reason. But it still gets durability quirks even though it has shield arms + better hitboxes.

In any 1v1 vs a warhammer or grasshopper the EBJ loses because torso twisting doesnt work in an EBJ, your opponent will just aim for the nose or take out your side torso while you are forced to shoot through his shield arms. And to top it off he can start torso twisting while you are mid laser burn because his lasers have a shorter duration.

The humanoid profile is so important that literally every popular IS mech in FP has one. Every IS mech with a non-humanoid profile is instantly considered junk. If the Hellbringer had the same pod space that the EBJ did, nobody would touch the EBJ with a 10 foot long pole either. The ability to use your arms to block shots is so important that it can mean the difference between you surviving a huge alpha while your opponent hits his heat threshold blowing off a useless arm or losing a side torso. In a mech like the catapult (or EBJ), you can torso twist all you want, your opponent does not care and will just take out your side torso.

Funny story, I was in a match today where a SRM cyclops was pushing. And while doing the standard torso twist and reverse to get away from him, he was holding his fire and waiting for me to turn towards him again so he could shoot me in the front. Then he realised that he could just hit my CT by aiming at the nose from the side and the rest was history. If I was in a mech with a humanoid profile, he would be forced to chew through my arm first then my side torso, which would take at least two alphas. That would have bought my team an extra 6+ seconds to focus fire him down, which makes all the difference.

And before someone gets started on the ridge humping argument, then by that logic every IS mech good at ridge humping should have their durability quirks removed. After all, they can just ridge hump right? I mean they do have better hitboxes + shield arms, it's not like they need more advantages on top.

Frankly, the EBJ hitboxes are as bad as the Dragon's, just that the Dragon has a square nose and the EBJ has a round nose. The Dragon gets massive durability quirks and still isnt popular. Sure, the EBJ can run laser vomit, but thats literally its only saving grace. Pretty much every EBJ build used by a clan unit is laser vomit for a reason.

The best thing you can do with an EBJ ballistic wise is probably to use a UAC 20 or 10 with it along with as many lasers as you can fit, but you still lose to anyone who uses cover to negate your range advantage because again, shield arms.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 26 September 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Commander A9, on 26 September 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

Don't know what you guys are talking about. I brawl with my Jag-Delta all the time. It works great!

Enough talent can make anything work well Commander..... I am really just doubting the general population can pull off what you can with that platform in a brawl.

Before anyone pipes in about Cmpl's here... this is not counting Cmpl vomit...which works well and I don't count as brawling for purposes of this thread...which is ballistic based in terms of the OP.

In the past I actually liked brawling with dual uac10 /ersml ebons pre-uac nerf...but after both weapon systems got hit with the nerf hammer it just wasn't worth it anymore. The risk/reward seemed to tip hard against it...especially as with the launch of the LBK, you could just bring Linebackers to brawl with for the same weight.

[N0ni]

Ebon Jaguar tips:

1: Do not make contact with 3 or more enemy mechs at once.

2: Do not be the first one spotted.

3: Do not sit in the back and snipe.

4: Do not brawl unless you absolutely have to.

5: You can do just about anything with this mech, but do not try to brawl with it because you're a glass cannon. Leave the brawling to the other clan heavies if you can while supporting them.

6: You might be a glass cannon, but you can take a few hits... share your armor.