239 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Jep Jorgensson, on 15 October 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

1. I do not own a Locust, so I cannot experiment with it.

2. None of us own a Piranha, so none of us can experiment with that.

3. So it seems that the two of you are devoid of a couple things aside from basic manners.


So a 180 on a Locust gives it 145.8, but a 190 gives it 153.9? Are you sure about those numbers? They seem a bit off to me. If it is not too much trouble, could you run those numbers again please? At any rate, thank you for replying to my observation with logic and class. It is refreshing.

Go into the in-game store, click a locust, click the mech lab tab in the bottom right corner. Presto... a mech you can edit changes to and see what different rating engines do to the top speed. As to the difference in speed between a 180 and 190 rating engine, that comes down to the rounding errors in MWO's speed formula compared to the baseline construction rules in battletech. SARNA's entries are based off of BATTLETECH construction rules. NOT this game's poor interpretation of those rules.

180 / 20 = 9. 9 times 10.8 = 97.2. 97.2 times 1.5 = 145.8
190 / 20 = 9.5. 9.5 times 10.8 = 102.6. 102.6 x 1.5 = 153.9

If this game actually followed BT rules.. there wouldn't be fractional results in engine ratings divided by mech tonnages. There'd be no meta-building putting 280 XLs in mechs instead of 275XLs for example. If a mech in BT that was 25 tons and came with a 150 rating XL engine. It wouldn't be possible in this game to then use a 170 XL instead (same tonnage of engine).

[Ovion]

Jep Jorgensson, on 15 October 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

1. I do not own a Locust, so I cannot experiment with it.

2. None of us own a Piranha, so none of us can experiment with that.

3. So it seems that the two of you are devoid of a couple things aside from basic manners.


So a 180 on a Locust gives it 145.8, but a 190 gives it 153.9? Are you sure about those numbers? They seem a bit off to me. If it is not too much trouble, could you run those numbers again please? At any rate, thank you for replying to my observation with logic and class. It is refreshing.

I only used math for the speed tweaked, I just used smurfy for the speed, easier than bothering with the math, just let a proven source do it for you:

Dee Eight, on 15 October 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

That DOESN'T MATTER. Unless you're deliberately trolling to make an apples vs oranges comparison.... what one 20 ton mech's top speed is with engine rating A, will be identical to another 20 ton mech's top speed also with engine rating A... because BOTH mechs (and every other mech in THIS game) use the same formula for calculating top speed. The only way to end up with a different result, is to change the rating of the engine in one of the two mechs, or add in the speed tweak skill nodes only on one of the two mechs.

So nothing to the other comments explicitly addressing things?

I did mentioned rating by MP*Tonnage.
And how it rounds, and changes by speeds.
And how other things would apply if you wanted a precise 1:1 comparison.
And how in a sim-ish based adaptation doing such things make little to no sense.

Of course, if you ONLY want the Atlas able to take a 100, 200 and 300 engine, and all mechs with a base of 1/2, 2/3, 3/5, 4/6, 5/8, etc, instead of actual speeds and arbitrarily rounding up to meet whole hexes that don't exist....
Well... why?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Jep Jorgensson, on 15 October 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

1. I do not own a Locust, so I cannot experiment with it.

Try here

[ERescue]

@Several people having from my point of view a silly argument:

There are several experienced players among you, so I am utterly amazed that NOBODY noticed that the rules are a simplification. Yes, I know it is just fluff, but according to my ancient TRO 3025 Wasp and Stinger mount identical GM 120 power plants, both have move profile of 6 / 9 / 6... and they have DIFFERENT top speeds... Wasp is listed as 66,5 kph cruise, 95,1 kph maximum, while Stinger's values are 63,4 kph cruise, 91,5 kph maximum. In other words, having identical engines and mass (20 tons each), they do not move at the same speed...

[Jay Leon Hart]

ERescue, on 16 October 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Yes, I know it is just fluff, but according to my ancient TRO 3025 Wasp and Stinger mount identical GM 120 power plants, both have move profile of 6 / 9 / 6... and they have DIFFERENT top speeds... Wasp is listed as 66,5 kph cruise, 95,1 kph maximum, while Stinger's values are 63,4 kph cruise, 91,5 kph maximum. In other words, having identical engines and mass (20 tons each), they do not move at the same speed...

Huh, that is odd.

Just had a quick look at 20 ton 'mechs with 120 rated engines on Sarna.

Cossack - 97.2 kph
Thorn - 97.2 kph
Flea - 97 kph
Wasp - 95.1 kph
Stinger - 91.6 kph

How odd.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jep Jorgensson, on 15 October 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

1. I do not own a Locust, so I cannot experiment with it.

2. None of us own a Piranha, so none of us can experiment with that.

3. So it seems that the two of you are devoid of a couple things aside from basic manners.

Have you heard of http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b5004d5819911f ?

All you do is drag an XL 180 on there, look at the speed, and then look at the Piranha store page, and see that they are the same!

That should have been your first action if you thought something was amiss, rather than saying "PGI shortchanging the clans".

Why do I have to spoon feed this to you?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 October 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

Huh, that is odd.

Just had a quick look at 20 ton 'mechs with 120 rated engines on Sarna.

Cossack - 97.2 kph
Thorn - 97.2 kph
Flea - 97 kph
Wasp - 95.1 kph
Stinger - 91.6 kph

How odd.

I mean... It makes sense if you look at real world design features... If you have longer legs, and can swing them equally fast, you'll go faster. If you have legs that are lighter, you can move them faster... Engineering is all about balancing these facts... Two cars weighing the same, with exactly the same engines can have different speeds based on any number of factors from transmission gearing, differential gearing, and even just the size of the wheels/tires... Or even just aerodynamics, all factors a mech would contend with as well.

Actually, the notions the game uses make almost no sense... You can't tell me that a Stalker skeleton, which has no arms and thus no need for the structure to support them, requires exactly the same amount of material as every other mech in its weight rating.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Dee Eight, on 15 October 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

Quote.

I do not use nor buy IS mechs. So no thank you.

Ovion, on 16 October 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

Quote.

Thank you for illustrating that. I appreciate you clearing up my concern.

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 October 2017 - 02:06 AM, said:

Quote.

I never use smurfy. I do not need that crutch.

Gas Guzzler, on 16 October 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

Quote.

I still never use smurfy.

You did not have to do anything, you choose to add undue rudeness and name-calling to what should have been a civilized discussion. Being the big forum poster that you are, your lack of basic civility and manners was rather disappointing. I hope you can fix this issue in the near future.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

I never use smurfy. I do not need that crutch.

You said you didn't have a Locust to experiment. I provided a tool with which to experiment. If you choose to ignore that tool, then fine, you can remain ignorant of the facts. Do not complain that you cannot do something, when you just admitted you choose not to use the tool which allows you to do the thing you claim you cannot do.

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

You did not have to do anything, you choose to add undue rudeness and name-calling to what should have been a civilized discussion. Being the big forum poster that you are, your lack of basic civility and manners was rather disappointing. I hope you can fix this issue in the near future.

Since I only posted a link, guessing this is aimed at someone else.

However, your post, which set this all off, contained this gem;

Quote

PGI is shortchanging the Clans again

It was demonstrated, multiple times, how this was not, in fact, true. You just admitted you could have checked the facts of this statement yourself, yet chose not to use "that crutch" to properly inform yourself.

Please, look inwards to see you are the cause of this discussion and the way you have presented your posts lead to the responses you received.

Yes, people could have been more polite. Including yourself.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 17 October 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

You did not have to do anything, you choose to add undue rudeness and name-calling to what should have been a civilized discussion. Being the big forum poster that you are, your lack of basic civility and manners was rather disappointing. I hope you can fix this issue in the near future.

Its tough to have that much patience.

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

I do not use nor buy IS mechs. So no thank you.

You don't have to buy it, you can modify it in the store.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 October 2017 - 12:50 PM.

[Ovion]

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

I never use smurfy. I do not need that crutch.

I don't know how a free and useful tool, that allows you access to a mechlab without booting MWO, and is accessible from anywhere with a browser (including phones) is a 'crutch'.

It's not laziness, it's not impeding anything, it's not a poor substitute or something to prop you up with...
You can do the same thing with a piece of paper, or excel, or the mechlab in MWO (which is even a little clunkier in some aspects, and the current layout was drawn from Smurfy.)

[CyanEyd]

What's up with the store, PGI? I was trying to purchase a Piranha pack and the payment portion of the site failed. Is the issue on your side or...?

[James Argent]

I just bought one...no issues encountered.

[M E X]

Does anyone else have problems with the ULTIMATE Piranha pack not beeing counted correctly for the 2017 MechWarrior Online Annual Rewards ?

Accourding to Tina Benoit in the Piranha FAQ

Quote

Q: What is the Ultimate Pack?
The Ultimate Pack is essentially just a way to purchase all of the Piranha Packs and additional variants at once, without needing to process individual transactions for each of them.
It is not a discount/bundle pack; purchasing all of the items individually costs the same as purchasing just the Ultimate Pack (though you might save a few bucks in transaction fees, depending on your purchase method).

the ULTIMATE pack should count as COLLECTORS pack + a Hero Add-on + a Reinforcement Add-on

As I had bought 2 IIc Hero mechs and 2 Clan Hero II mechs, I SHOULD have 6 eligible Mechs & Add-ons for the TOP TIER Clan reward !

But I am waiting for it since 10th Oktober !

I have sent 3 Emails reguarding this issue to PGI until now but not recieved any reaction from them ... not even a automated reply that they have received one of my emails

Edited by M E X, 26 October 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[Tarogato]

Jep Jorgensson, on 17 October 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

You did not have to do anything, you choose to add undue rudeness and name-calling to what should have been a civilized discussion. Being the big forum poster that you are, your lack of basic civility and manners was rather disappointing. I hope you can fix this issue in the near future.

I apologise on their behalf. Many of us who have been around for a while and also like to dig into the nuts and bolts are acutely aware of the many resources available to us. It's easy to get a bit irritated when we see somebody insist that PGI be blamed for a misunderstanding that we think most people could have resolved through research via the resources that we take for granted by now - Smurfy being one of them.

Smurfy in this case is just useful because it's just a convenient mech speed calculator, even if you use it for nothing else. Here are all the details I know if it helps clear up any confusion:




Mech speed is calculated in hexes by WalkingMP = EngineRating ÷ MechTonnage

RunningMP = WalkingMP × 1.5

So a 55ton mech with a 330 engine would walk 6 hexes and run 9 hexes.




Mech speed is calculated in kph by RunningMP × 10.8

So a 55ton mech with a 330 engine that runs 9 hexes per turn would travel 97.2 kilometers per hour. This is the speed that Sarna reports for the Stormcrow.




A shortcut method that achieves the same result would be...

EngineRating ÷ MechTonnage * 16.2

For a 55ton mech with a 330 engine, this gives us 97.20 kilometers per hour, and this is the calculation used by MWO.




Some of the earliest mechs (I imagine the Introductory Box Set) are given different speeds in kph for no discernible reason, presumably just to add a little variety to the fluff. This differences meant nothing to gameplay as far as I am aware, all that matters is the Movement Points in hexes.

[Koniving]

Is it bad that I want a Piranha, but refuse to buy it until after November the 14th since it won't count towards the next annual rewards until then.... and that I'm upset I'll miss out on the preorder stuff because of the stupid time limit on it?

The "early" preorder stuff mind you.

There's also the recent trend of absolutely terrible animation reuse in the sloppiest manner possible for recent mechs.

[Ovion]

Koniving, on 29 October 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Is it bad that I want a Piranha, but refuse to buy it until after November the 14th since it won't count towards the next annual rewards until then.... and that I'm upset I'll miss out on the preorder stuff because of the stupid time limit on it?

The "early" preorder stuff mind you.

There's also the recent trend of absolutely terrible animation reuse in the sloppiest manner possible for recent mechs.

I mean, if you really want to 'game' the system:
Get the standard pack now - that qualifies you for all the preorder bonuses.
If you're intending to get the Collectors / Hero / Addon, and don't need them to qualify for this years stuff, do that some time in December to ensure it covers next years rewards.

Edited by Ovion, 29 October 2017 - 09:36 AM.

[Koniving]

Ovion, on 29 October 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

I mean, if you really want to 'game' the system:
Get the standard pack now - that qualifies you for all the preorder bonuses.
If you're intending to get the Collectors / Hero / Addon, and don't need them to qualify for this years stuff, do that some time in December to ensure it covers next years rewards.

If the 6 pack deal for heroes works, then that could work. Or twin collectors...

Hm.

We'll have to see if that works.

[Jay Leon Hart]

For those who missed it

Piranha banner


Piranha preview
https://www.instagra...chwarrioronline

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Nice =]

Looks like a walking ammo explosion

Hope my computer can cope with the sheer amount of particles when I fire all those MGs