26 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

I think switching weekly back then was due to the new merc reward tree and little to do with balance. Experienced crews win regardless of tech, so we switched to the side of lower pop. Now, everyone has the merc tree maxed, and none of the seasoned players honestly care about merc cbill bonuses, it's all about MC. Since PGI in their wisdom removed earning faction LP as mercs, the obvious result is farming LP as loyalists and due to the harsh switching costs, no one moves due to pop. Wondarbar!


The root of the problem was actually listening to the player base too much. The role players hated mercs moving around and also getting faction ranks, so we removed them and pushed players into loyalist roles. Working as intended. Unfortunately, the fluidity of movement created better balance of skill and that was lost as well.

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 04 October 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Back before KDK when balance was pretty close we all switched about weekly. Now that tech favors Clans and there's LP to farm as Clan loyalist there's no good reason to play IS.

If balance was better population would be better.

NlGHTBlRD, on 04 October 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

I think switching weekly back then was due to the new merc reward tree and little to do with balance. Experienced crews win regardless of tech, so we switched to the side of lower pop. Now, everyone has the merc tree maxed, and none of the seasoned players honestly care about merc cbill bonuses, it's all about MC. Since PGI in their wisdom removed earning faction LP as mercs, the obvious result is farming LP as loyalists and due to the harsh switching costs, no one moves due to pop. Wondarbar!


The root of the problem was actually listening to the player base too much. The role players hated mercs moving around and also getting faction ranks, so we removed them and pushed players into loyalist roles. Working as intended. Unfortunately, the fluidity of movement created better balance of skill and that was lost as well.

It all comes back to rewards. You folks who still play the mode consistently are going to play it in a manner that maximizes the rewards you can gt for playing it. If PGI wants the population of the mode to be balanced (keep in mind it is the skill disparity of the population which they claim is sole reason for the IS v Clan weight balance), they need to have a mechanism which encourages not only you consistent FP players to move between the techs (and perhaps factions) but that is equally attractive to casuals to play the mode and try and take advantage of those rewards as well.

Why they refuse to recognize this as the primary problem with FP and the main driver of its low and cyclical population drop off every damn phase, absolutely boggles my mind.

Bad rewards lead to only the most dedicated sticking around. The most dedicated then go to where they can to maximize their rewards. This creates a population imbalance where by when casuals. loreholes, and new players come in they get stomped by the consistent players and then leave once they wise up. The good players get bored of immense wait times or fully realize all the rewards that they can effectively get and eventually leave too. Then PGI resets the phase and it all starts over. EVERY damn time going on three years. MORE rewards, better rewards, applied consistently and used to direct the population flow would solve this problem to at least the extent that those willing to play would have a reason to play and KEEP playing.

[MischiefSC]

Bud Crue, on 04 October 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

It all comes back to rewards. You folks who still play the mode consistently are going to play it in a manner that maximizes the rewards you can gt for playing it. If PGI wants the population of the mode to be balanced (keep in mind it is the skill disparity of the population which they claim is sole reason for the IS v Clan weight balance), they need to have a mechanism which encourages not only you consistent FP players to move between the techs (and perhaps factions) but that is equally attractive to casuals to play the mode and try and take advantage of those rewards as well.

Why they refuse to recognize this as the primary problem with FP and the main driver of its low and cyclical population drop off every damn phase, absolutely boggles my mind.

Bad rewards lead to only the most dedicated sticking around. The most dedicated then go to where they can to maximize their rewards. This creates a population imbalance where by when casuals. loreholes, and new players come in they get stomped by the consistent players and then leave once they wise up. The good players get bored of immense wait times or fully realize all the rewards that they can effectively get and eventually leave too. Then PGI resets the phase and it all starts over. EVERY damn time going on three years. MORE rewards, better rewards, applied consistently and used to direct the population flow would solve this problem to at least the extent that those willing to play would have a reason to play and KEEP playing.

If the tech is balanced.

Bribing people to play inferior tech doesn't last long.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

If the tech is balanced.

Bribing people to play inferior tech doesn't last long.

Imho tech will never be balanced as long as they try to make even a modicum of effort at keeping this game grounded in the BT/MW games of the past. A rough approximation of sort of fair is as close as I think that they can ever get to balanced unless they chuck the whole IP out the window (don't get me wrong, even such a rough approximation would be WAY better than what we have atm).

But rewards balance, faction balance, motivational balance, etc. is something they can do without hurting anyone or any aspect of the game. It would only improve the game and their own bottom line as it might actually encourage folsk to play the damn mode. This sort of thing would take even less effort than even PGI typically puts forth...and yet they have refused to do so for no good reason that I can fathom going on three years now. Its just so self-defeating that I can hardly stand it.


As to your second point...I don't know about that the more I think about it. Good players are the first to exclaim that they can win with either tech. So bribe them to play the crappy tech on a consistent basis and see what happens. Then keep upping the rewards/bonuses until it has a discernible effect. That might take a good part of the phase and it would certainly be better than the status quo, no?

Edited by Bud Crue, 04 October 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Bud Crue, on 04 October 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

Imho tech will never be balanced as long as they try to make even a modicum of effort at keeping this game grounded in the BT/MW games of the past. A rough approximation of sort of fair is as close as I think that they can ever get to balanced unless they chuck the whole IP out the window (don't get me wrong, even such a rough approximation would be WAY better than what we have atm).

But rewards balance, faction balance, motivational balance, etc. is something they can do without hurting anyone or any aspect of the game. It would only improve the game and their own bottom line as it might actually encourage folsk to play the damn mode. This sort of thing would take even less effort than even PGI typically puts forth...and yet they have refused to do so for no good reason that I can fathom going on three years now. Its just so self-defeating that I can hardly stand it.


As to your second point...I don't know about that the more I think about it. Good players are the first to exclaim that they can win with either tech. So bribe them to play the crappy tech on a consistent basis and see what happens. Then keep upping the rewards/bonuses until it has a discernible effect. That might take a good part of the phase and it would certainly be better than the status quo, no?

Except that when you're a good team of competitive players and you lose a match you should have won because the other teams gear is just flat out better.... that happens one time and the team tends to move. Nobody wants to always play at a disadvantage. As the odd one-off, sure. For a break. However without balance everything else is irrelevant. As to the IP, they acknowledged the abject failure that OP Clan balance and moved it to 1 to 1 balance. There's no logic in repeating an acknowledged failure. The game is a 1 to 1 FPS. If that's not balanced then FW is always going to be broken. Nothing else will help it in any real way.

[Bud Crue]

MischiefSC, on 04 October 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

Except that when you're a good team of competitive players and you lose a match you should have won because the other teams gear is just flat out better.... that happens one time and the team tends to move. Nobody wants to always play at a disadvantage. As the odd one-off, sure. For a break. However without balance everything else is irrelevant. As to the IP, they acknowledged the abject failure that OP Clan balance and moved it to 1 to 1 balance. There's no logic in repeating an acknowledged failure. The game is a 1 to 1 FPS. If that's not balanced then FW is always going to be broken. Nothing else will help it in any real way.

Totally agree. Now if you have a way to convince PGI of THAT let me know and I will gladly back you and bug whomever you can direct me to about it. PGI and their recent: "tech is only 6% difference" and "drop deck weight disparity is about skill disparity not tech disparity" and Russ's infamous and oft repeated line that faction play is "fine" (while asking the players at round tables how to fix it), doesn't seem to agree with any of us and our views of tech imbalance.

I'm just trying to focus on what they do appear willing to at least address occasionally (events = more rewards =more population, low pop. factions get better bonuses, etc.). Its at least something that they seem willing to look at with frequency. All I want them to do is do it with more frequency and make it an integral part of the mode to direct the population as needed for at least this one aspect of imbalance that they appear to recognize.

Edited by Bud Crue, 04 October 2017 - 02:38 PM.

[Nightbird]

Bud Crue, I talk about rewards a lot in this thread. I think you'd agree with many of them, not gonna copy and paste here.

https://mwomercs.com...rovement-ideas/