23 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

I'll do a clan version just let me prepare.(Less ghost heat and less Durations most likely)

The weapons we have right now are not that strong and feel like you can take so many hits and still not die.
Multiple clan mechs mount Heavy Lasers, Dual PPCs, 2 Er 1 gauss,LPL,mix of ERLL/ERML
and just stomp pugs even when they are pugs themselves. Clan Tech is supposed to be better and extremely deadly and this being an online game is difficult for balance to be made because of that
so why not increase the DPS for I.S because it will be much easier to beat clan mechs and there will be less stomps and it technically means every mech will be deadly with these buffs.

Weapons
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Lasers
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Flamer: Needs 125-200m, No heat cap for opponents +25% bonus heat for the target and 1-2 seconds longer to build up the heat threshold for the weapon. (this would be a good way to keep mechs away from you or give you the ability to shut down laser snipers)

(I feel the basic lasers need to be lower cd and lower duration while ER is longer cd with bonus range, pulse lasers should be very low CD and duration)

SL: 1-1.50 CD 0.50 duration

ML: 2 CD 0.70 duration

LL : 2.50-2.75 CD 0.9 duration

ERSL 2 CD +70m

ERML 2.75 CD +80m

ERLL 3.50 CD +100m

SPL 0.65 CD 0.30 duration (20 less range fall off)

MPL 1.25 CD 0.50 duration (100 less range fall off)

LPL 2.00 CD 0.70 duration (200 less range fall off)

Light PPC 2 CD

PPC 3 CD and ghost heat cap for 4 PPC removed 1800 projectile speed

ERPPC Ghost heat has been moved to 4 instead of 3 (Projectile speed is 2000)

Heavy PPC needs different Color and the ghost heat has been moved to more than 3



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Ballistics
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Autocannons don't really feel very auto-like and for their weight they need lower cd to dish out lots of DPS
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AC2 0.55 cd 1600 projectile speed

AC5 1.10 cd 1400 projectile speed

AC10 1.80 cd 1200 projectile speed

AC20 2.30 CD 1000 projectile speed
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LBX should be a longer ranged weapon with slightly tightened spread and should deal increased damage to item criticals like a TargetingComp/PPC/ML.etc but do no increased damage to internals (IDTI means Increased Damage to Items)
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LBX2 0.70 CD 2500 projectile speed 850m (50%-100% IDTI) 10% tightened

LBX5 1.30CD 2400 projectile speed 735M (50%-100% IDTI) 15% tightened

LBX10 2.10 CD 2000 projectile speed 615m (50%-100% IDTI) 20% tightened

LBX20 2.60 CD 1800 projectile speed 425m (50%-100% IDTI) 10 slots instead of 11 and 25% tightened
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UACs same stats as the basics but with 200 less projectile speed for each and +0.25 seconds for cd
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Gauss rifles are high velocity weapons and should have increased projectile speed and bonus range
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Light Gauss rifle should have 3000 Projectile speed and bonus 175m

Gauss should be 2600 Projectile speed and bonus 150M

Heavy gauss should be 2200 projectile speed and bonus 130m-200m


Machine guns should be able to have 3 Machine guns per ballistic slot
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Missiles
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Streaks should be able to be toggled to be dumbfired to combat ECM functioning like AECM

Mrms should shoot rows of missiles for 10-5 each (like a lrm20 being shot out of a lrm5 on certain mechs because they can't go more than 5-10 lrms)

Rocket Launchers should either be single shot rockets that deal a certain amount of damage while holding the amount of rocket ammo the launcher currently is (like 10 ammo for rocket launcher 10)
or the rocket launchers we have right now should have 2-3 extra shots

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If you go above the heat scale and shut down i think there should be a chance to damage or destroy your heatsinks along with your center torso to combat boating
Single Heat Sinks need 1.2-1.3

Double Heat Sinks need 1.8-2.0

Edited by Armored Yokai, 12 October 2017 - 03:01 AM.

[Lugin]

Armored Yokai, on 09 October 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

Streaks should be able to be toggled to be dumbfired

That defeats the entire concept behind Streaks.
It was created as an ammo saver. It would only fire when every tube on a given launcher had a good lock.
That meant that sometimes, it wouldn't fire when you pulled the trigger.

This is speculated to be part of why the Clans still produce standard SRM launchers rather than only using Streaks.

[Thorqemada]

Clan does not approve that - so it wont happen

[HammerMaster]

Lugin, on 09 October 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

That defeats the entire concept behind Streaks.
It was created as an ammo saver. It would only fire when every tube on a given launcher had a good lock.
That meant that sometimes, it wouldn't fire when you pulled the trigger.

This is speculated to be part of why the Clans still produce standard SRM launchers rather than only using Streaks.

TT streaks can turn off the "streak" part and be used as a standard launcher when under enemy ECM.
Keyword: Toggle on/off.

Edited by HammerMaster, 09 October 2017 - 05:50 PM.

[Lugin]

HammerMaster, on 09 October 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

TT streaks can turn off the "streak" part and be used as a standard launcher when under enemy ECM.
Keyword: Toggle on/off.

First, what's your source?

Second, the only instance I can find in the rules regarding ECM and Streaks is in regard to Angel ECM.

Tactical Operpations, pg 279 said:

ANGEL ECM SUITE

Rules Level: Experimental
Available To: BM, IM, CV, SV, BA, AF, CF, SC, DS, MS
Tech Base (Ratings): Both (F/X-X-F)

Game Rules: The Angel ECM Suite works like standard ECM (see p. 134, TW), but can also block the Bloodhound Active Probe, Artemis V and C3 Booster Systems, and even negates the locking systems of Streak missiles. Streak missiles fired into or through a hostile Angel ECM bubble will not fire if the to-hit roll fails, but on a successful Streak launcher attack, the attacker must roll on the Cluster table as though the launcher were a standard (non-Streak) model.

Units with multiple ECM suites (of any type) may use only one at a time in game play. Fighters, Small Craft, DropShips and other airborne units may only use ECM suites when interacting with ground units, or in accordance with the advanced rules for aerospace combat covered in Strategic Operations.

Units equipped with Stealth Armor can use the Angel ECM in place of the Guardian ECM for the same effect, using the same rules.

This is running a search through all the main rulebooks (TW, TM, TO, SO, IO) for "streak."
And no mention of a toggle for Streaks.

Edited by Lugin, 09 October 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I don't really like the idea with the LBX there. You have them as practically useless. The LBX2 has double the cooldown of an AC2, at 900m even if you tighten up the spread significantly an AC2 is just going to be flat out superior. I notice on each one it just has a 0.5 second longer cooldown, but that really hurts the lower cooldown ones disproportionately compared to the ones with longer cooldowns.


Overall I just dislike your idea of making the LBX more of the long ranged weapon, as it just won't accel at it with its spread, especially with ACs that fire faster and have pinpoint damage.

[El Bandito]

Shorten the LBX range, and increase the pellet damage. Done. IS LBX20 crit needs to be 10 slots though.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 October 2017 - 09:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I don't see the point of those laser changes. While the Smalls are deificient in the damage/DPS department, your changes don't address the problems of the rest.

The LL doesn't have enough range or any major distinction to take over ERLL unless you are really squeezing on heat/

The LPL is weaksauce in damage an not really worth taking over the LL unless you are slot- or hardpoint-limited. It's also hotter.

The ERLL and ERML both run too hot and the ERLL doesn't have enough range.

The ERSL fires too slow.

The SL fires too slow.

The SPL doesn't have any punch.

The MedLas is actually fine as it is.

[Johnny Z]

Inner Sphere needs a nudge. Nothing drastic. Balance is very nice at the moment. Just needs a thin layer of buffiness.

Yeonne Greene, on 09 October 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

I don't see the point of those laser changes. While the Smalls are deificient in the damage/DPS department, your changes don't address the problems of the rest.

The LL doesn't have enough range or any major distinction to take over ERLL unless you are really squeezing on heat/

The LPL is weaksauce in damage an not really worth taking over the LL unless you are slot- or hardpoint-limited. It's also hotter.

The ERLL and ERML both run too hot and the ERLL doesn't have enough range.

The ERSL fires too slow.

The SL fires too slow.

The SPL doesn't have any punch.

The MedLas is actually fine as it is.

The 1 point off the LPL really hurt. Could barely compete as it was. So many hard point deficient mechs is part of the problem.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 October 2017 - 10:17 PM.

[Curccu]

Is there any thinking or calculations behind these recommendations or just "feelings"?

Only one that really makes sense to me is ability to dumbfire streaks.

[Armored Yokai]

the post has been updated

Curccu, on 09 October 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

Is there any thinking or calculations behind these recommendations or just "feelings"?

Only one that really makes sense to me is ability to dumbfire streaks.

Both...It's my feeling and I'm trying to calculate, I want the Weapons to be strong but not overloaded and I'm planning to add Clan tweaks to balance it out so I.S battle-mechs wont be some unstable high DPS berserkers

Edited by Armored Yokai, 11 October 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[Tarogato]

You're ignoring the part where IS generally have DPS issues induced by heat. Clans stack more than enough DHS on their builds to counter the extra heat they generate, and the result is more sustained DPS than IS mechs running similar builds. Why rebalance all the weapons first when instead you could tweak one of the single most major imbalances in one go?

[Curccu]

Armored Yokai, on 11 October 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

the post has been updated Both...It's my feeling and I'm trying to calculate, I want the Weapons to be strong but not overloaded and I'm planning to add Clan tweaks to balance it out so I.S battle-mechs wont be some unstable high DPS berserkers

From what I have calculated from your post you want everything to be instagibbed compared to what we have now.
Lets take your SPL buff: We have now 1,46 DPS and you want to upgrade it slightly to 5,8 DPS while giving it better range and burn time which is only about 40% of what we have now, THAT IS INSANE. 1x "new SPL" is cycling 4 times faster than old and deliveries it's damage wayyyy faster.
HBK-4P <-- This huncback with current weapon values would be GREATLY outgunned by this Spider using your recommendations --> SDR-5V.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Buffs to make IS equal to clans again (yes, we had that, like once in the history of MWO, for a short time) would need to be crazy good, and bad for that 'precious' TTK.

I would start from 'unfixing' operations heat nodes (because the fix made them way too good), nerfing clan heatsinks (so they can actually 'run hotter' like they supposed to, not way cooler like they actually do), and lowering clan gauss ammo count (so that clan gauss is not 3-tons lighter IS gauss with free CASE).

Any balance attempts need to go AFTER that.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 11 October 2017 - 11:49 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Lugin, on 09 October 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

First, what's your source?

Second, the only instance I can find in the rules regarding ECM and Streaks is in regard to Angel ECM.



This is running a search through all the main rulebooks (TW, TM, TO, SO, IO) for "streak."
And no mention of a toggle for Streaks.

thats a reason why toggle should work on streaks since regular ecm does behave like TT angel ecm as it makes locking impossible and not just slower

[Armored Yokai]

Curccu, on 11 October 2017 - 11:13 PM, said:

From what I have calculated from your post you want everything to be instagibbed compared to what we have now.
Lets take your SPL buff: We have now 1,46 DPS and you want to upgrade it slightly to 5,8 DPS while giving it better range and burn time which is only about 40% of what we have now, THAT IS INSANE. 1x "new SPL" is cycling 4 times faster than old and deliveries it's damage wayyyy faster.
HBK-4P <-- This huncback with current weapon values would be GREATLY outgunned by this Spider using your recommendations --> SDR-5V.

I've been thinking on the pulse laser being too strong with my values and I think with the weapon values i gave it should deal 65% or 70% of it's current damage or the cd should be increased by a certain amount along with the duration. This would be a whole lot easier if i was able to use "test dummies" and use the current values in a modified version of MWO. Also did you include the ability that the Hunchback could fire 3-4 weapons at a time while engaging a Spider? or while it runs around?

Edited by Armored Yokai, 12 October 2017 - 02:33 AM.

[Curccu]

Armored Yokai, on 12 October 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

Also did you include the ability that the Hunchback could fire 3-4 weapons at a time while engaging a Spider? or while it runs around?

Huh what ability?

But anyway I just compared pure values you gave in your recommendation.

[Armored Yokai]

Curccu, on 12 October 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

Huh what ability?

But anyway I just compared pure values you gave in your recommendation.

I considered the firing of 3-4 weapons in separate groups to be an ability because i see people only fire alphas and i've been wondering if would be enough to deal with the heat and be able to outgun the spider by aiming for it's legs and moving to the center or other leg

[Curccu]

Armored Yokai, on 12 October 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

I considered the firing of 3-4 weapons in separate groups to be an ability because i see people only fire alphas and i've been wondering if would be enough to deal with the heat and be able to outgun the spider by aiming for it's legs and moving to the center or other leg

People alpha weapons because it is easier to track target accurately for 0,5 second in this case than 1,5.
But again I just theorycrafted numbers you gave and didn't include playerskill because it varies a lot.

[PurpleNinja]

More IS buffs?