23 replies to this topic

[ColonelMetus]

Innersphere needs something to combat the clans in faction war! give us these weapons of mass destruction! Arrow IV would be nice too

[N0ni]

Bombast laser doesn't reach prototype production until 3064. MWO is in 3057.

Not quite there yet, but maybe we'll see it.

Edited by N0ni, 14 October 2017 - 02:47 AM.

[Papaspud]

hahahahahaha balance= clans all the way all the time...FU PGI

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yes to Bombast Lasers! Also Binary Laser Cannons!

[Papaspud]

Jay Leon Hart, on 14 October 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yes to Bombast Lasers! Also Binary Laser Cannons!

No to balance= clan must rule......PGI balance equation.

[Brain Cancer]

ColonelMetus, on 14 October 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Innersphere needs something to combat the clans in faction war! give us these weapons of mass destruction! Arrow IV would be nice too

If it's more than 12 crit slots, PGI cannot code it because they find making one weapon in two locations impossible.

So no Long Tom (or Sniper, or Thumper) artillery cannons. No IS Arrow IV.

Clan Arrow IV is 12 crits. Clearly OP.

[El Bandito]

Jay Leon Hart, on 14 October 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yes to Bombast Lasers! Also Binary Laser Cannons!

When you think of it, Clan HLL is basically Binary Lazer Cannon (2x9 damage), except HLL weighs only 4 tons, while IS Blazer weighs 9 tons. So Clans already got a superior version of it.

Brain Cancer, on 14 October 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

If it's more than 12 crit slots, PGI cannot code it because they find making one weapon in two locations impossible.

So no Long Tom (or Sniper, or Thumper) artillery cannons. No IS Arrow IV.

Clan Arrow IV is 12 crits. Clearly OP.

Technically PGI can easily make those weapons to have 12 crits max (do the same to IS LBX20 while they are at it), but since they are unimaginative, we can't have good things.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 October 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

When you think of it, Clan HLL is basically Binary Lazer Cannon (2x9 damage), except HLL weighs only 4 tons, while IS Blazer weighs 9 tons. So Clans already got a superior version of it.

Seems pretty consistent with everything else then ... ...

[Jun Watarase]

Im looking forward to the snub nosed rotary arrow IV canons.

[Funky Bacon]

I think the Bombast could work similar to a Gauss charge, only the weapon deals 7 damage uncharged and the max 12 damage at full charge. Holding the charge for too long would either discharge the weapon or just lose the charge like a Gauss (discharge might be too dangerous with allies around).

[Brain Cancer]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Technically PGI can easily make those weapons to have 12 crits max (do the same to IS LBX20 while they are at it), but since they are unimaginative, we can't have good things.

But then you couldn't make them TT-canonical designs.

Why they can't put in something similar to how XL engines work, I haven't a clue.

[Valhallan]

Brain Cancer, on 14 October 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

If it's more than 12 crit slots, PGI cannot code it because they find making one weapon in two locations impossible.

So no Long Tom (or Sniper, or Thumper) artillery cannons. No IS Arrow IV.

Thumper cannon's are only 7 crits, it's the artillery piece version that is too fat. It'd be niche though, being a hotter and heavier ac/5 in exchange for some splash and a indirect trajectory.

[Khobai]

Quote

No IS Arrow IV.

why not? ArrowIV is the kindve weapon that would have to be hardwired onto a mech anyway.

because the weaponmesh for ARROWIV would literally turn the mech's entire arm into a giant launcher it would be impossible to make an ARROWIV weaponmesh for every single mech in the game

ARROWIV is entirely possible as a hardwired weapon system. Only the Catapult and Naga would be able to use it. And possibly the Thunder Hawk if its ever added.

Edited by Khobai, 14 October 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[Funky Bacon]

A Catapult K2 with giant Arrow IV launcher tubes instead of PPC barrels? hmmm......

[Koniving]

ColonelMetus, on 14 October 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Innersphere needs something to combat the clans in faction war! give us these weapons of mass destruction! Arrow IV would be nice too

A few problems.
One we had long toms. Both sides had them in MWO.

Two... Mass destruction the were not. Well in Battletech. The range of damage is a 75 meter radius (the impact point counting as the first 15) and a total diameter of 150 meters. Without doubling the damage, it also only did a total of 270 damage to 19 mechs, or if there were all vehicles with every hex as full as can be, 540 damage to 38 vehicles... provided every hex was filled.

So 150 meter diameter area of effect, with 30 to 60 damage delivered in the epicenter, 20 to 40 damage to each mech delivered at 30 meters beyond the initial 30 meter center, and 10 to 20 damage delivered to everyone just outside of 60 (75) meters of the center. All split into units of 5 damage each and applied to any parts facing the center of the boom.

Yeah what we got was a "reduced maximum damage" to the epicenter at 1370 damage PER MECH.... and a diameter of 270 meters... as well as what might as well be a...


And there in rest the problem. Ignoring all the lore about it, the weapon randomly targets the highest volume of enemies in proximity to each other.

Thus it got abused and removed.

Shame PGI ignored literally all the lore. Like targeted by TAG users. Limited amount of ammo, can be fired once every 20 seconds but would only have enough ammo for 20 to 30 shots. No where NEAR as much damage as it delivered per shot... could barely get the damage the MWO Long Tom did to one mech...across 30 shots of a proper Long Tom...

But hey, why create a balanced, useful weapon system when we can create some overpowered half-baked piece of **** and let players abuse it?

[Brain Cancer]

Khobai, on 14 October 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

why not? ArrowIV is the kindve weapon that would have to be hardwired onto a mech anyway.

because the weaponmesh for ARROWIV would literally turn the mech's entire arm into a giant launcher it would be impossible to make an ARROWIV weaponmesh for every single mech in the game

ARROWIV is entirely possible as a hardwired weapon system. Only the Catapult and Naga would be able to use it. And possibly the Thunder Hawk if its ever added.

I wouldn't mind hardwired Arrow IV (that is, it's fixed spaces locked into the 'Mech) at all. Heck, just make an Artillery hardpoint for weapons of that type, and there you go.

Funky Bacon, on 14 October 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

A Catapult K2 with giant Arrow IV launcher tubes instead of PPC barrels? hmmm......

More like a single massive missile launcher on one side.

Koniving, on 14 October 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

A few problems.
One we had long toms. Both sides had them in MWO.

As you noted, those aren't Long Toms. Those were nuclear warheads. Actual Long Toms fired 30-point rounds that splashed out 60m, while the cut down version 'Mechs mount fire 20 point rounds that splash out 30m, just like Arrow IV rounds.

"Copperhead" rounds were TAG guideable, but standard LT fire was simply aimed at a location and shot off without. PGI utterly ignored it in favor of delivering orbital strikes, marking one of the great exoduses from FP as there's nothing like being a PUG and systematically nuked off the board.

[Bombast]

Why, hello there.

[Koniving]

Brain Cancer, on 14 October 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

As you noted, those aren't Long Toms. Those were nuclear warheads. Actual Long Toms fired 30-point rounds that splashed out 60m, while the cut down version 'Mechs mount fire 20 point rounds that splash out 30m, just like Arrow IV rounds.

"Copperhead" rounds were TAG guideable, but standard LT fire was simply aimed at a location and shot off without. PGI utterly ignored it in favor of delivering orbital strikes, marking one of the great exoduses from FP as there's nothing like being a PUG and systematically nuked off the board.

Indeed.

Under TRO 2750 when Long Toms are introduced into Battletech (as a game, not in universe), the spotter mech is required to use a TAG to designate the area which the Long Tom intends to fire as per the Battletech Manual. I'm sure this has changed since then after shifting hands across 4 companies and nearly 2 and a half decades later. But that's what I most recently read.

Also of interest: LBX weapons are described as long-shell weapons (where regular autocannons have very short shells) with a built in FCS (one of the reasons for improved accurate range) . The cluster ammo is originally described as flak-like, which explosive fragments in proximity to a target. It isn't until after the 90s that it is given the "Shotgun" moniker.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Khobai, on 14 October 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

ARROWIV is entirely possible as a hardwired weapon system. Only the Catapult and Naga would be able to use it. And possibly the Thunder Hawk if its ever added.

Don't forget the Urbie UM-AIV...the only light mech that was reconfigured to literally be an Arrow IV on legs with a tactical nuke warhead.

[Brain Cancer]

Koniving, on 14 October 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

Indeed.

Under TRO 2750 when Long Toms are introduced into Battletech (as a game, not in universe), the spotter mech is required to use a TAG to designate the area which the Long Tom intends to fire as per the Battletech Manual. I'm sure this has changed since then after shifting hands across 4 companies and nearly 2 and a half decades later. But that's what I most recently read.

Also of interest: LBX weapons are described as long-shell weapons (where regular autocannons have very short shells) with a built in FCS (one of the reasons for improved accurate range) . The cluster ammo is originally described as flak-like, which explosive fragments in proximity to a target. It isn't until after the 90s that it is given the "Shotgun" moniker.

Long Toms aren't introduced in TRO 2750. Arrow IV's are, and those DO talk about TAG-guided rounds (homing ammo) along with the standard area-saturation rounds. The first reference to the Long Tom is TRO 3025 (the original tech manual) as the LT-MOB-25 (complete with stats). Copperhead rounds (artillery homing shells, versus homing missiles with the AIV) show up in TacOps, with a revival date of 3051, dating back to 2675 for the original application to "modern" artillery. Homing (and later "copperhead" shells) missiles require TAG designation on the turn of arrival, or else the round doesn't detonate.

The LB-X indeed is noted for having a superior, integrated FCS, although unlike Artemis, it's not an ECM vulnerable part of the system. My copy of TRO 2750 doesn't show anything about shells, although interestingly enough the UAC-5 is described as using a shorter and smoothbored barrel versus standard (rifled) autocannons. And yes, LB-X cluster ammo is indeed a proximity-detonated spray of canister....which is why in TT, you can hit with every pellet even at the longest possible range.

Various MW games turned cluster ammo into a spread of pellets from the initial shot instead, getting it compared (accurately) to a shotgun instead. The "real" LB-X is a bit more high-tech.

Fox With A Shotgun, on 14 October 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

Don't forget the Urbie UM-AIV...the only light mech that was reconfigured to literally be an Arrow IV on legs with a tactical nuke warhead.

That'll have to wait until we get small cockpits and a few other bits of tech. But yes. Urbie with an artillery missile launcher.