55 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

PGI had increased laser cooldowns from 15% (pulse lasers) to 33% (regular and ER lasers) across the board, with the exception of LL/ERLL/CERLL, and heavy lasers. While cooldown nerf is arguably the least impacting nerf, compared to heat, duration, and range, this nerf is gonna affect IS more negatively than Clan.

Take the example of my personal favorite las-vomit mechs, the 78 alpha HBR and MADIIC, of which the IS have no answer when trading. When I alpha my big load, it takes me about 10-12 seconds to cool off all the waste heat, as my heat gauge climbs to 70-80% instantly. Therefore, CERML (6.25 seconds with duration) and HLL (7.55 seconds with duration) cooldown nerf is not gonna be effective in curbing my DPS in general. The only time this cooldown nerf affects my overall DPS is when I pop my coolshot for faster second alpha, and when I override in a hopeless situation to do as much damage as possible. Very situational.

On the other hand, Inner Sphere mechs with their cooler firing lasers usually try to get close and fire off as much alpha before the Clan mechs cool off. My 50 alpha las-vomit TDR/GHR/WHM can fire their lasers twice before the heat begins to affect my DPS. Which means this blanket cooldown nerf will negatively affect their DPS more noticeably. Which might have been fine, if IS was better than Clans on las-vomit, but they are not! PGI's latest round of nerfs basically made the laser disparity even wider. Heck, this balance change might even force more Clanners to increase their laser alphas to that of 70+ damage range.

[Composite Armour]

Someone said somewhere that the IS medium laser now does less DPS than the C-ERmed. So at any range, you lose.

I don't understand these changes. I'm trying, but I don't. Did they forget that the medium laser only has a base 270m range?

[SFC174]

Precisely. I didn't like using the 2 HLL vomit setup on my HBR so I ended up with 1 HLL and 6 ERML. Could still Alpha at 60 pts but it gave me more flexibility using the faster firing ERMLs. Now, there is simply no point in not running the 2 HLL vomit because the new cooldowns are so close between the HLL and ERML.

I don't like having to wait 7 seconds between volleys, but that's what these changes dictate. Funny, I wonder if my relative performance will actually improve.....

[Papaspud]

Duh, so the clans have to hide a few more seconds to spew their 70+ alphas, better for cooling right? This is the worst thing ever for balance of the game in my mind, IS were supposed to DPS, but they decided all lasers need a nerf even for the mechs that can carry only 2-3, so all those IS lights and meds that were viable with meds or smalls- hahahahahgaha.... . Why is that, well because clan mechs have +++ hardpoints= too much alpha. So nerf short range DPS weapons- and by doing this buff long range alpha weapons....yea no doesn't sound good, in fact poo-poo, I am glad to vent tonite, and cancel all my preorders.... feels pretty good thanks for the money back PGI........go clans go, soon you will have to have clan warfare because all IS will be gone.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Small laser nerfed lol. nerf to one of the last half decent IS heavies

Senseless weapon nerfs, wahoo

Whatever, I give up. Clan mechs exclusively it is.

[The Mysterious Fox]

i just realised that the cserl has the same cooldown as the hsl lol

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Lately it's one dumb further imbalancing change after another dumb imbalancing change. Nerf meta weapons in their least important aspect, nerf already underpowered runner ups in one of their most important aspect.

Its funny how they managed to make everyone pissed.

IS fanboys got pissed because their toys got nerfed
"Balance fanboys" got pissed because meta and imbalance got reinforced
Clan fanboys got pissed because they're pushed further into one and only viable weapon setup and got any runner ups nerfed (ATMs almost as good as lasers? NERF!!)
Clan apologists got pissed because they THINK the clans got nerfed.

This patch is a bad joke

[BattleBunny]

They might have finally gone full ******.

[Nightmare1]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

PGI had increased laser cooldowns from 15% (pulse lasers) to 33% (regular and ER lasers) across the board, with the exception of LL/ERLL/CERLL, and heavy lasers. While cooldown nerf is arguably the least impacting nerf, compared to heat, duration, and range, this nerf is gonna affect IS more negatively than Clan.

Take the example of my personal favorite las-vomit mechs, the 78 alpha HBR and MADIIC, of which the IS have no answer when trading. When I alpha my big load, it takes me about 10-12 seconds to cool off all the waste heat, as my heat gauge climbs to 70-80% instantly. Therefore, CERML (6.25 seconds with duration) and HLL (7.55 seconds with duration) cooldown nerf is not gonna be effective in curbing my DPS in general. The only time this cooldown nerf affects my overall DPS is when I pop my coolshot for faster second alpha, and when I override in a hopeless situation to do as much damage as possible. Very situational.

On the other hand, Inner Sphere mechs with their cooler firing lasers usually try to get close and fire off as much alpha before the Clan mechs cool off. My 50 alpha las-vomit TDR/GHR/WHM can fire their lasers twice before the heat begins to affect my DPS. Which means this blanket cooldown nerf will negatively affect their DPS more noticeably. Which might have been fine, if IS was better than Clans on las-vomit, but they are not! PGI's latest round of nerfs basically made the laser disparity even wider. Heck, this balance change might even force more Clanners to increase their laser alphas to that of 70+ damage range.

This. IS lasers have always been the focus of out-DPS'ing Clanners while Clanners have always focused on out-Alpha'ing the IS. Now that the IS has cooldowns more in line with the Clans, they're screwed.

[Angel of Annihilation]

It just makes the game so much more fun cause you know, you get to stand around a whole lot longer with your thumb up your rear waiting for your weapons to cool down.

What is even worse in my mind is that I have been playing since the beginning and cooldown timing is one of those things I have learned to subconsciously keep track us so a major cooldown change like this means I am going to be "feeling" like I should be ready to shoot but the clicks aren't going to produce anything. Game is going to become really frustrating at that point.

[Myke Pantera]

It's another kick in the groins for IS lights... But whatever. IS dominated comp. play anyways. Oh wait. They didn't...

[WrathOfDeadguy]

El Bandito, on 14 October 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

A Heapin' Helpin' of TRUTH.

Couldn't agree more. The cooldown nerfs don't affect my Clan vomit builds at all. HLL+ERML combos already require well in excess of those cooldown times to dump heat after firing. Those are the high-alpha builds that everybody and their dog's grandmother have been complaining about. If anything, the cooldown nerfs make them more user-friendly by reducing the chance of accidental self-immolation... and they'll drive players away from DPS builds in favor of the spike alphas that are the source of all the drama. My one-click 78-point Hunchback IIC-A will be no less stronk on Tuesday afternoon than it was the last time I dropped in it... but my 39-point HBK-4P just lost its quick follow-up shot, which it needed badly in order to close the performance gap because it has half the bloody alpha.

Stop balancing entire weapon classes around one or two 'Mechs.

I don't give a goober of flying moose spittle if somebody got bad touched by a Wolfhound, or by whatever vomit heavy the cool kids are playing these days. Okay, so you've successfully weakened the Wolfhound by nerfing medium lasers... but you've also nerfed the Spider 5D, which has half as many hardpoints but relies on the same weapons, the 5V, which is and has always been absolutely terrible with its mere two lasers... the COM-TDK and 1B are also hit hard. The Wolfhound is still in play because it has the hardpoints to fulfill the same role even at the weapons' new fire rates... but the Spiders and the laser Commandos vanish altogether, because they were already weaker than the alternatives and nerfing their main damage source makes them nonviable.

Thus, the 'Mech that was meta actually gets stronger in relation to other 'Mechs carrying the same weapons, even as it gets weaker in relation to other build types. We'll see an uptick in SRM light usage after the patch, but even the most dedicated badmech devotees will think twice before they drop in their non-meta laser lights, so 'Mech variety on the field will suffer. Oh, and don't forget to roll out the red carpet for the grand return of the "sniper" Raven. Expect to see some ERLL cancer because... well, that's what happens when you take the knife-fighting weapons away. I'm sure everybody's gonna be thrilled to see the peek-birds flocking back, right?

Y'all are "normalizing" a small handful of metas at the expense of pounding dozens of underperformers into total obscurity.

Blanket nerfs are bad, mmkay?

And, seriously, what the hell is up with these small laser nerfs? Again?! When have IS small lasers ever been OP by any stretch of the imagination? There are hardly any 'Mechs they're even viable on, let alone good! I can think of... well, no, even ERSL boating a FS9-A still isn't good. What the hell build prompted y'all to slap the smalls around- or was it because MLs were getting nerfed too, and we can't have anybody even considering the possibility of replacing them with smalls?

[SpiralFace]

Composite Armour, on 14 October 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Someone said somewhere that the IS medium laser now does less DPS than the C-ERmed. So at any range, you lose.

I don't understand these changes. I'm trying, but I don't. Did they forget that the medium laser only has a base 270m range?

How is this any different from what we have now? Current IS medium laser DPS is 1.28, Clan ER medium laser DPS is 1.4 in the current game according to smurfy.

Do these changes widen that gulf or make it more narrow? As it seems the Clan ER Medium laser got a heavier nerf then the standard Medium laser. So if anything, it appears like these changes would bring those two weapons closer together comparatively.

I'm all for critisism, but to me this particular bit seems to ring a bit hollow as its no different from what is in the game now. And while I don't have the exact numbers, I can't imagine that the already existing divide got worse when the Clan ER ML got hit worse then the standard IS ML.

Edited by SpiralFace, 14 October 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

SpiralFace, on 14 October 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

How is this any different from what we have now? Current IS medium laser DPS is 1.28, Clan ER medium laser DPS is 1.4 in the current game according to smurfy.

Currently, most Clan 'Mechs are too heat-capped to feasibly take advantage of that. With regards to standard MLs, IS 'Mechs are often not. With the new changes, that dynamic is gone.

Quote

Do these changes widen that gulf or make it more narrow? As it seems the Clan ER Medium laser got a heavier nerf then the standard Medium laser. So if anything, it appears like these changes would bring those two weapons closer together comparatively.

I'm all for critisism, but to me this particular bit seems to ring a bit hallow as its no different from what is in the game now. And while I don't have the exact numbers, I can't imagine that the already existing divide got worse when the Clan ER ML got hit worse then the standard IS ML.

But it didn't get hit worse than the isERM; the cERML will have 80% of its old DPS, the isERML 78%.

We shouldn't really be comparing the ML to the cERML too much, it's a different class of weapon more along the lines of the older cSPL than the cERML. Both the Heavy Mediums and standard Mediums getting their DPS savaged is really not appropriate for a 270 meter weapon.

[Johnny Z]

Give all Clan weapons a delay before firing like the rotary cannon. Balance achieved.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Johnny Z, on 14 October 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Give all Clan weapons a delay before firing like the rotary cannon. Balance achieved.

OK, that's enough garbage from you for a few weeks...

[Johnny Z]

SpiralFace, on 14 October 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

How is this any different from what we have now? Current IS medium laser DPS is 1.28, Clan ER medium laser DPS is 1.4 in the current game according to smurfy.

Do these changes widen that gulf or make it more narrow? As it seems the Clan ER Medium laser got a heavier nerf then the standard Medium laser. So if anything, it appears like these changes would bring those two weapons closer together comparatively.

I'm all for critisism, but to me this particular bit seems to ring a bit hallow as its no different from what is in the game now. And while I don't have the exact numbers, I can't imagine that the already existing divide got worse when the Clan ER ML got hit worse then the standard IS ML.

Mayb e they are going to double armor and internal values again?

[Pixel Hunter]

it's another ham-handed attempt at balance

[Unnatural Growth]

My beloved Centurion just got punched in the jimmies.

Again.

Thanks PGI.

It must have been all those games where I swept the field clean of enemy combatants...

Oh, wait.

[DAYLEET]

Is there anyways you can reign in the huge dps some mech have without hurting pushing action time and the usual brawling that comes with it? And even more hurting smaller mechs who are supposed to do just that? Artemis change does just that too, nobody cares but they add up to the laser nerf and they hurt, again, the smaller mech who have to chose between critspace and tonnage or slightly better accuracy with their 3 or 4 srm system. Its a heavy price when youre a med or a light.

Ive not tried these changes but i dont like em. Sure seem to hurt a lot more those who arent the problem. As is usual with MWO with the way mech and faction are made. Fk everyone or do case by case. I really feel like the smaller mech lose more than the bigger mech here while not gaining anything in return. Its not like their life will be increased with one second delay on the second alpha required to kill them or put them in the back seat.

also. will you fkin decrease the sl burn time so it make sense to have it on a light that you dont plan to stop for every fkin alpha.