32 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Nightbird, on 17 October 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

Missile spread is in meters, LBX/MG spread is in degrees.

Missiles when fired spread to a circle with diameter as specified, as you've tested it takes roughly 50 meters to do that.

LBX/MG spread in a cicle diameter of 2*distance travelled*sin(spread in degrees). In your case, 2*200*sin(1)=3.5meters.

Is there any point in having two different spread formulaes that are not documented anywhere in game?

Ironically this means LBX actually spreads worse than artemis SRMs at anything approaching LBX optimal ranges. I didnt realise that was possible. Who could possibly have thought this was a good idea?

[Cold Darkness]

well, theres obviously no reason for that to exist, but we did lack alot of information in the mechlab for a long time. so give them a year or two and they might streamline the mechlab again, possibly changing those spreadinfos, too ._.

[MadRover]

What the OP is saying is factual. The larger the mech, the easier it is to put more missiles where you want them at passed point blank. So it SHOULD be easier to smack the CT with ASRMs on an Atlas and not as easily on anything else especially lights once all the variables are accounted for. So unless you fire SRMs at below 15m, which btw if you played any previous MW title that is splashing damage onto yourself even though it probably doesn’t happen in MWO, you’re not really putting a good chunk to where you need them to hit ever unless it’s from the rear but THOSE are REAR SHOTS which is even better for ANY weapon as there’s better options.

Those nerf to Artemis and every missile system is the dumbest thing to happen but money talks to them. Not spending another penny until they get their heads out of their own asses.

[Nightbird]

PGI's self-imposed wound for not doing mechs by volume. The Atlas is a 300ton mech by volume compared to the locust. Any weapon made to spread well against that monstrous size will be useless against a smaller mech.

[ForceUser]

Nightbird, on 18 October 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

PGI's self-imposed wound for not doing mechs by volume. The Atlas is a 300ton mech by volume compared to the locust. Any weapon made to spread well against that monstrous size will be useless against a smaller mech.

So useless in fact that they are never used in a game mode where you ONLY face medium and light mechs.

/s

Edited by ForceUser, 18 October 2017 - 08:53 AM.

[Asym]

Tiewolf, on 17 October 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

Like I said before I couldn't understand the patch notes. It feels like someone said:"we want to change that but we have no reasons for it other then burning the players cbills so make something up for the patch notes." As far as I know nobody asked for an Artemis nerf and putting all missiles in one component is very unlikely if you are not at 20m point blank range. Your testing even didn't consider torso twist/movement of the atlas so the real damage to one specific area is even less. Well done Jun!

Actually, I bet a 'dollar to a donut' that PGI is listening to 'a group of customers"; and, the nerfs all serve them, those select customers...

It's my opinion that the competition and elite players absolutely do not want any missiles interrupting their FPS style of game play.....

Imagine a MWOWC where they couldn't have in-the-open/un-covered snipers providing over-watch....
In the real world, what can be seen can be hit and what can be hit can be killed..... What can be seen can be targeted and there is NO warning bad is headed your way.... Imagine how that would change the game itself.... Having to use AMS. Having to use Radar Dep. Having to use cover.... All of the skill points for Radar Dep are in weapons, survival and mobility..... No AMS needed because they've removed the LRM/ATM/SRM/streaks from the TO&E via PGI's efforts.... It's all First Person Shooting (FPS) w/o indirect or missile direct fire.
Is that MWO or the ideas of a select few?

[MadRover]

Asym, on 18 October 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Actually, I bet a 'dollar to a donut' that PGI is listening to 'a group of customers"; and, the nerfs all serve them, those select customers...

It's my opinion that the competition and elite players absolutely do not want any missiles interrupting their FPS style of game play.....

Imagine a MWOWC where they couldn't have in-the-open/un-covered snipers providing over-watch....
In the real world, what can be seen can be hit and what can be hit can be killed..... What can be seen can be targeted and there is NO warning bad is headed your way.... Imagine how that would change the game itself.... Having to use AMS. Having to use Radar Dep. Having to use cover.... All of the skill points for Radar Dep are in weapons, survival and mobility..... No AMS needed because they've removed the LRM/ATM/SRM/streaks from the TO&E via PGI's efforts.... It's all First Person Shooting (FPS) w/o indirect or missile direct fire.
Is that MWO or the ideas of a select few?

But this is not balancing. Balancing occurs when you take the biggest sample and compare notes while also both playing the game to see it in practice and looking at the risk and reward. Taking SRMs is a monumental risk compared to the current meta of pokey pokey because you have to both:

A. Get without a minimum of 300m with nodes and
B. Not get your SRMs blown off in the process of getting within the minimum of 300m with nodes.

So naturally you would probably want something fast and/or perhaps sneaky like a BSW, slap an XL engine into it, put forth the ton expenditure down, slap ASRM6s so you can fire your shots a bit more reliably, AND NOT DIE while trying to get within the absolute minimum with nodes of 300m. That’s quite a bit of effort there to spit out 24points of damage into 3 components AT node range of 300m and you’re telling everyone it was op? Are you mad, insane, delusional, or just plain stupid? That’s my question to PGI.

[Hydrocarbon]

Jun Watarase, on 17 October 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

roughly 58% of the SRMs hit the CT.

Worse is when you consider it's a stationary target, and that any stationary target will usually get 100% of a laser, gauss, non-clan PPC, and autocannon damage to a single component. A recent vid I saw of an Anni running 2x lbx20 and 2x lbx5 (or 10?) was able to put nearly 100% of the damage to the rear CT not once, but enough to kill a dire and 2 other mechs, and it was much more than 100m.

The problem isn't the weapon system.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

All I care is that SRMs were not OP, thus nothing srm-related required a nerf, especially the Artemis that cost you an arm and a leg in terms of tonnage and crit space if you wanna boat SRMs. A certain Assassin variant was kinda overperforming, but the cause was not srms.

Nerfing runner-up tech or equipment is not a good idea. Period. All it does is reinforce the meta, by making weaker alternatives even weaker in comparison, thus it always hurts the balance.

[Humpday]

Off topic, but I don't think those skills do much either, i tested several times with MRM 30s expecting a noticeable performance upgrade....same thing, standing at 100 out to 250 or 300.

Just hold down the fire button and count the number of volleys it takes to ct it., nah, no difference. I was expecting maybe 2 less volleys to ct it. Didn't really seem to do much. Though i digress i still take the nodes.

Also, i don't really observe much(if any) of a performance boost from taking the high explosive nodes...but again, i do take them for the heck of it.

[Humpday]

also I don't understand the missle spred metric. MRM30 says it has 4.5 spread, same thing with srm6 no arti and those seem to no spread nearly as much as mrms standing infront of a big stationary target. I dunno.

[Mcgral18]

Asym, on 18 October 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Actually, I bet a 'dollar to a donut' that PGI is listening to 'a group of customers"; and, the nerfs all serve them, those select customers...

It's my opinion that the competition and elite players absolutely do not want any missiles interrupting their FPS style of game play.....

Imagine a MWOWC where they couldn't have in-the-open/un-covered snipers providing over-watch....
In the real world, what can be seen can be hit and what can be hit can be killed..... What can be seen can be targeted and there is NO warning bad is headed your way.... Imagine how that would change the game itself.... Having to use AMS. Having to use Radar Dep. Having to use cover.... All of the skill points for Radar Dep are in weapons, survival and mobility..... No AMS needed because they've removed the LRM/ATM/SRM/streaks from the TO&E via PGI's efforts.... It's all First Person Shooting (FPS) w/o indirect or missile direct fire.
Is that MWO or the ideas of a select few?

Um...you know they have full access to LRMs and missiles, right?
They often make use of LRMs


LRMs are not taking, because they are bad. That's the simple truth
ERMLs & LLs work better at mid range
Anything works better at short range
ERLLs work better at long range


LRMs don't do anything well.
Missile nerfs aren't for the Comp level, or the top level. It's for the Potatos, exactly where you shouldn't be balancing anything from

Humpday, on 18 October 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Off topic, but I don't think those skills do much either, i tested several times with MRM 30s expecting a noticeable performance upgrade....same thing, standing at 100 out to 250 or 300.

Just hold down the fire button and count the number of volleys it takes to ct it., nah, no difference. I was expecting maybe 2 less volleys to ct it. Didn't really seem to do much. Though i digress i still take the nodes.

Also, i don't really observe much(if any) of a performance boost from taking the high explosive nodes...but again, i do take them for the heck of it.

Artemis doesn't affect MRMs, note that they don't get the +1 ton?
SSRMs are bugged because of Targeting, which is different

Humpday, on 18 October 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

also I don't understand the missle spred metric. MRM30 says it has 4.5 spread, same thing with srm6 no arti and those seem to no spread nearly as much as mrms standing infront of a big stationary target. I dunno.

Five times the missiles means they can bombard the entire 9M circle, instead of just 6 missiles
Saturation
RNGeesus at his finest.

[Sjorpha]

TWIAFU, on 17 October 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

A "majority' of people cannot do math.

51% is a majority for those that can.

There are three kinds of people you know, those who can count and those who can't.

The Artemis nerf is stupid though, just like every single damn thing in this patch. (except the agility increase on some 100 tonners, that's a good change.)