28 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Personally I think LRMs are in a pretty good spot right now. You can make them work in open play and they can be fun to use but they will never be comp viable because of the inherent features/flaws.

That's not a good spot, it's a horrible one- again "it's only good for killing newbs" means it's not good, period. Of course, now they're even worse. Bigger launchers get hurt even more by this than smaller ones, so lobbing more missiles gets even worse diminishing returns than before.

Testing out CLRM15/20's and larger ATM launchers last night was a very unpleasant thing.

[Lykaon]

Well I have a "theory" and it's a dark path to tread.

The source of the artemis nerf and the locking arc nerf is in fact....


DUN DUN DUN!

The Arctic Wolf!

With the introduction of this 40 ton clan missile platform we have a blend of small profile speed and massive damage potential per mech ton.

In the past we had the baneful "streak" crow in FW scouting ruling the roost. As a quick fix the clan max weight limit for scouting was reduced to disallow the Stormcrow as an option.

Later we got the Huntsman that can also streak boat but the Huntsman lacks the blend of speed + streaks that makes this specific build so good at destroying light mechs.

Everything looked good the forums were not wet with the tears of "Streaksman" victims and the fuss quieted down.

Now along comes the Arctic Wolf and it's only 40 tons so permissable in Scouting! And it does posses the blend of speed and Streak boating potential.

So to head off the upcoming wash of tears from "Streak wolf" deaths in scouting the Locking mechanics are nerfed.

But....

DUN DUN DUN!

They could just switch to artemis SRMs and get arguably better results!

Nerf those too!





So am I doing it right? is my tinfoil hat on straight?

[Lykaon]

Verilligo, on 19 October 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure nobody gives a damn about Artemis and LRMs. People complain about LRMs fired by players without line of sight, in which case Artemis doesn't even work. This Artemis nerf effectively only impacts SRMs, which... why? In order to indirectly nerf the Assassin and attempt to contain the fury that is the Arctic Wolf before it got unleashed? 'Cuz I'm pretty sure THAT one didn't work.

This guy gets it...

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 19 October 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

PGI probably saw missiles doing a lot damage, and nerfed them while flat out ignoring their spread nature, which makes their damage far less impacting than it really is.

Then again, I don't work there so no idea what goes through their minds.

Yeah, it's entirely possible missiles have a lot of last hits and damage numbers, from a lot of lower tier players. After all, not everyone runs the highest meta build or has the skills needed to avoid being LRMed. Hell, there are other aspects, like Radar Derp or AMS, that might be present at higher/lower levels of play, but their effect won't be tracked by raw data.

In short getting good data from metrics with such a diverse player base will be difficult.

[davoodoo]

I do feel it was more due to srms but its still way too ******* late when mrms and atms exist now.

acw wont be op.

Edited by davoodoo, 20 October 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Brain Cancer, on 20 October 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

That's not a good spot, it's a horrible one- again "it's only good for killing newbs" means it's not good, period. Of course, now they're even worse. Bigger launchers get hurt even more by this than smaller ones, so lobbing more missiles gets even worse diminishing returns than before.

Testing out CLRM15/20's and larger ATM launchers last night was a very unpleasant thing.

Well, if a good spot to you is being comp viable then that's insane. If LRMs became the meta this game would die.

Its not only good for killing noobs, its just bad against a coordinated group and smart players. Even they can get smashed by LRMs in open play if they get caught out of position. LRMs punish mistakes, but your target has to make one first.

Edited by Roughneck45, 20 October 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Well, if a good spot to you is being comp viable then that's insane.

If LRMs became the meta this game would die.

LRMs could never become the meta. It's a spread damage weapon that can't deliver effectively instant damage to a target.

But the gap between LRMs and anything comp level is immense at this point. And after this patch, it's even worse. It's not even a second-rate weapon. It's third-rate.

Laserboating? Be afraid, he'll core you. AC boating? PPC boating? SRM boating? Gauss? All significant threats.

By comparison, there are players that won't be killed by an LRM for weeks of play.

If someone's slinging 20+ tons of gun my direction and firing, it should be a threat. If it's inefficient damage, it should at least be accurate. LRMs are neither, unless you're such an easy, ignorant target that actual effective weapons would gut you even faster.

[davoodoo]

Roughneck45, on 20 October 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

Well, if a good spot to you is being comp viable then that's insane. If LRMs became the meta this game would die.

I would actually like meta mechs to actually be a little more diverse than just everything running the same setup on different platforms...

Having 1 or 2 lrm mechs in comp match would be a good thing imo.

Edited by davoodoo, 20 October 2017 - 03:30 PM.

[Kijiro Bugboy]

Brain Cancer, on 20 October 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

LRMs could never become the meta. It's a spread damage weapon that can't deliver effectively instant damage to a target.

But the gap between LRMs and anything comp level is immense at this point. And after this patch, it's even worse. It's not even a second-rate weapon. It's third-rate.

Laserboating? Be afraid, he'll core you. AC boating? PPC boating? SRM boating? Gauss? All significant threats.

By comparison, there are players that won't be killed by an LRM for weeks of play.

If someone's slinging 20+ tons of gun my direction and firing, it should be a threat. If it's inefficient damage, it should at least be accurate. LRMs are neither, unless you're such an easy, ignorant target that actual effective weapons would gut you even faster.

This guy knows what he's talking about. These are the exact same experiences I have in general.

Hell, we're not even necessarily arguing for giving LRM large/definitive buffs; we just want the completely unwarranted ART nerf removed (and preferably the lock retain nerf as well).

Edited by Asriel Dreemur, 02 November 2017 - 12:08 PM.