231 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok I have to say this but Chirs, Russ, PGI, whomever......I really don't understand your vision or your goal.

I want to talk specially about the medium laser nerf. First, Why?

I have been playing this game since closed beta and in the entire time I have played this game there has never been a single comment about medium lasers in general being too powerful. That being the case, why change them? I mean it seems a classic example of fixing something that is not broken for no real reason whatsoever.

No one wants medium lasers to be like they are now, not one single player in this game. No one even saw them as being a problem prior to the change so why piss on and piss off your players?

I mean it is like pissing us off is your ultimate goal or at least that is how it feels. Seriously the people currently playing the game enjoy the gameplay as is overall at least. Sure you got people complaining about Faction Warfare but how the hell does a global nerf to medium lasers fix that problem. Lack of maps is another complaint. A global nerf to medium lasers doesn't fix that either. Some even complain about poor game modes, guess what though, a global medium laser nerf doesn't fix that either.

So I got to ask why change something in a fashion that no one asked for and no one wants?

Seriously, your either marching to the tune of some grand vision that none of your players care about or just out to troll us for the fun of it.

So come on already. Stop screwing with us, stop nerfing and start spending your time and effort on things your players want and care about.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 21 October 2017 - 04:16 PM.

[roboPrancer]

It's infuriating. Especially since they repeatedly nerf the weapons mostly reserved for lights, making them less and less viable.

[Bud Crue]

Vision?
Well, the only thing they are keeping un-nerfed it would seem is long range gauss-vomit. So peek and poke warrior online? Is that an esport? Honest question, cuz if it is...there it the so called "vision". Best guess I can come up with.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bud Crue, on 21 October 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Vision?
Well, the only thing they are keeping un-nerfed it would seem is long range gauss-vomit. So peek and poke warrior online? Is that an esport? Honest question, cuz if it is...there it the so called "vision". Best guess I can come up with.

You know I seriously wonder about this. I mean just how many balancing decisions are based on their desire to turn MWO into some ESport sensation rather than improving the game for us average folks who are the ones keeping the lights turn on and the salary paid. I seriously could see a scenario where it was decided that nerfing medium lasers would make the ESport aspect of the game more exciting or something and the hell with the rest of the player base.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 21 October 2017 - 05:00 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

Any sane individual would recognize that making this game into esport is pure delusion.

Yes, if that person is sane. Very important condition here.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 21 October 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

You know I seriously wonder about this. I mean just how many balancing decisions are based on their desire to turn MWO into some ESport sensation rather than improving the game for us average folks who are the ones keeping the lights turn on and the salary paid. I seriously could see a scenario where it was decided that nerfing medium lasers would make the ESport aspect of the game more exciting or something and the hell with the rest of the player base.

The comp players probably pay more into the game than you do.

That said, you are mistaken in assuming there would be some difference in the balance depending on whether or not PGI was targeting Esports. It would be the same.

[Bud Crue]

Viktor Drake, on 21 October 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

You know I seriously wonder about this. I mean just how many balancing decisions are based on their desire to turn MWO into some ESport sensation rather than improving the game for us average folks who are the ones keeping the lights turn on and the salary paid. I seriously could see a scenario where it was decided that nerfing medium lasers would make the ESport aspect of the game more exciting or something and the hell with the rest of the player base.

Like I said, its the only guess that fits their past statements. Esports potential and all that. If the nerfing of every other play style fits one of their other potential vision statements of the past, I'll be damned if I can recall which one.

[s0da72]

I cant really see this game being a big e-sports draw. It has a progressive system that puts Day 1 users at a disadvantage.

[BigBenn]

The reload times are another arbitrary and variable mechanic of the game (thankfully!), and I personally don't have much riding on laser reload times. They are what they are.

I think the biggest thing PGI could do to limit the massed number of lasers used at one time (laser vomit/boating/easy way out, etc), it to jack up the heat penalty and make players think twice about using the alpha strike, or even using more than 5 SL's, 4 ML's, or 2 LL's at once. Heat should be a factor.

Ballistics have the every variable in the book... except heat (save for RAC's). Lasers have every freebie there is... except heat. Make it an issue.

Oh... and remove the charge up on the gauss. Thanks.

[adamts01]

Plus sides to the change: There's always been too much similarity between pulses and ERs, so much so that they're often in the same weapon groups. The lower burst of the pulse with a very quick cooldown really pushes it towards brawling, and the ER cooldown nerf pushes them away from brawling. The problem that keeps this new system from working is that the game is all about big alphas. Address that (CoF) and brawling/pulses will be in a much better place. The other option is to turn pulse lasers in to an energy machinegun. Unlimited ammo paid for with heat. Either way, I like the distinction between the weapons, just not sure we have a game for those weapons.

[Y E O N N E]

adamts01, on 21 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

Plus sides to the change: There's always been too much similarity between pulses and ERs, so much so that they're often in the same weapon groups. The lower burst of the pulse with a very quick cooldown really pushes it towards brawling, and the ER cooldown nerf pushes them away from brawling. The problem that keeps this new system from working is that the game is all about big alphas. Address that (CoF) and brawling/pulses will be in a much better place. The other option is to turn pulse lasers in to an energy machinegun. Unlimited ammo paid for with heat. Either way, I like the distinction between the weapons, just not sure we have a game for those weapons.

Standard MedLas are not ERs but still took a nerf. They are brawling-range weapons. MedPulse still won out against them in a brawl. There was no need to nerf them, rather they should have bumped the heat on MPL down to match the MedLas.

[roboPrancer]

The thing about pulses is that they are already double the weight of regular mediums so they aren't going to be used in place of vanilla mediums on lighter mechs that need that weight for heatsinks and engines. If they were equal weight then you could say the choice is just a brawl vs poke. But with that weight difference its not that simple. Not to mention the terrible range of IS pulses that makes them hardly worth taking at all. But that is a whole other kettle of fish.

Edited by roboPrancer, 21 October 2017 - 07:44 PM.

[Natred]

Just proves how out of sync with what is strong right now.

[adamts01]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 October 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Standard MedLas are not ERs but still took a nerf. They are brawling-range weapons. MedPulse still won out against them in a brawl. There was no need to nerf them, rather they should have bumped the heat on MPL down to match the MedLas.

Fair enough, I got stuck in Clan mode and wasn't clear. But you get the point, I think pulse lasers should be the clearly dominant brawling victor. Look at the MPL vs ML + Heat Sink scenario. The MPL should absolutely be more heat efficient and win in a brawl, especially since IS has ERs now. I see MLs as more of a filler weapon, which isn't really a bad thing for 1 ton and decent heat. This also touches on the IS heat sink problem. Either those heat sinks need a buff or IS lasers need to have less heat, I'd argue for better heat sinks.

[Brain Cancer]

I'm still shaking my head at why PGI thinks it was a wise, sensible decision to do things like making LRMs less effective.

Because Artemis. Also, ATMs. Because they didn't have Artemis, just lore fluff to say as much so we'll nerf them too.

Did I end up bludgeoning Chris to death with my Supernova on his alt account too many times?

[Y E O N N E]

Brain Cancer, on 21 October 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm still shaking my head at why PGI thinks it was a wise, sensible decision to do things like making LRMs less effective.

Because Artemis. Also, ATMs. Because they didn't have Artemis, just lore fluff to say as much so we'll nerf them too.

Did I end up bludgeoning Chris to death with my Supernova on his alt account too many times?

They probably saw more people taking SRM/LRM with Artemis than without, and decided they didn't like that. But..if you are going to boat missiles, why would you do anything other than take all the tools that let you boat them most effectively?

I don't think their interpretations of whatever metrics they receive are at all accurate.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 October 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

The comp players probably pay more into the game than you do.

That said, you are mistaken in assuming there would be some difference in the balance depending on whether or not PGI was targeting Esports. It would be the same.

Want to make a bet? I got about $300 into MWO so far this year but if they keep up this random nerfing for no reason, the well is going to dry up. I mean each and every patch, they change something to make the game less fun.

Seriously, that is my point. Does anyone feel the game is more fun with slower firing weapons? Correct me if I am wrong here but most of us play this game for fun right?

Now I don't have a clue if ESports has anything to do whatsoever with the Grand Plan or Blindfolded Dartboard game whichever PGI used to balance the game but I am grasping at straws here because I really don't get it. These last rounds of nerfs aren't what anyone wants and no one likes them so revert things back to normal and let me get back to playing the game I liked enough to spend $300 on.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 21 October 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 21 October 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

Want to make a bet? I got about $300 into MWO so far this year but if they keep up this random nerfing for no reason, the well is going to dry up. I mean each and every patch, they change something to make the game less fun.

Most of the comp people buy every 'Mech package that isn't obviously going to suck, and they usually get the reinforcements too since the best variants are typically behind that paywall. And if they don't buy it on release, they buy it when it becomes legal to use in Leagues. I bought Warhammers Mist Lynx, Origins IIC, and Thunderbolts with dollars long after they were out for C-bills, for example, because it was easier.

Quote

Seriously, that is my point. Does anyone feel the game is more fun with slower firing weapons? Correct me if I am wrong here but most of us play this game for fun right?

I'm not refuting that the nerf was bad (it definitely was), I'm just attacking a particular part of your statement because you say it all the time and yet it's both ignorant and incorrect.

Quote

Now I don't have a clue if ESports has anything to do whatsoever with the Grand Plan or Blindfolded Dartboard game whichever PGI used to balance the game but I am grasping at straws here because I really don't get it. These last rounds of nerfs aren't what anyone wants and no one likes them so revert things back to normal and let me get back to playing the game I liked enough to spend $300 on.

Now you're at least being honest.

PGI will do what PGI will do because, when they hear people saying something is a problem, they don't take the time to investigate in what way it is a problem, instead looking at usage metrics to go "yes, we think this is a problem." Then they make a change and, even if it was to one specific thing for one side, change both sides.

The Assassin is probably going to get whacked next, because some people have been complaining about it, except now the Arctic Wolf is here and is just as survivable with the same or better firepower and nothing on it to nerf at all. The result will be the removal of what is a pair of fairly counter-balanced Mediums in exchange for one crap one and one good one.

[Snowhawk]

They overnerfed the small pulse lasers and now the medium lasers. And in addition these silly walking animations of the Mad Cat MKII and the Night Star... Lately Pgi makes strange decisions, "head-shake"....

[The6thMessenger]

I'd ask "what vision?", but that's too belittling.

Personally, i think the C-ERML do deserve nerfs on it's way, but this global cooldown nerf is just pretty ********.