62 replies to this topic

[Asym]

Well, the deathball, NASCAR, Competition community finally has what it wanted: useless or ineffective indirect fire or consumable weapons.

There is too much time to react to the smoke to make the Arty or AS consumables seriously effective.
That is a real problem. Scouts see the groups of mechs and are not able to effectively break them up or alter the consequences. 7 seconds is a lifetime in MWO. There should be an audiable warning to the enemy of "incoming" or something; but, telling them where its coming from just doesn't make sense. Of course some will say we actually use smoke to mark positions today ! Yes, we do ! Usually in Urban areas and if we are "danger close" to the enemy.....and, even that is going away as there are other IFF tools in play now......

That is the point to these weapons: un announced immediate and severe damage. The nerf's to LRMs/ARTEMIS render those indirect fire systems ineffective as a proactive deterent system.... They just aren't dangerous enough to seriously attrit on coming enemy formations especially if they are in the open because they don't need cover!

I concerned that MWO is becoming an arcade FPS only platform that does not require any advance, combined arms teamwork.... That's what many of us saw in the MWOWC Semi-finals where assault ERLL vomit mechs stood, in the open, on top of a freaking hill no less, providing long range overwatch fire..... LRM's and unannounced ARTY/AS's whould have eliminated that gameplay because those Assaults whould have been obliterated.....

This situation is decisive because it alters the gameplay at the upper levels of MWO in that those players are playing a completly "different" game than the rest of us.... They don't need AMS or Radar Dep because there aren't any indirect fire weapons used? They use Air Strikes as "anticipated route or location" deterents..... But, more often than not, even the best of the best miss because of the lag between smoke and effect.....

I know, it's a game and all but, geeze, let's either call it quits for teams and combined arms or just drop Solaris.... Having stuff that doesn't work as intended is counter intuitive and isn't a quality experience.

OK, I'd like to hear what the non hate crew really think and have a good discussion....

Edited by Asym, 21 October 2017 - 07:03 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Air and Arty is already effective enough


They can stay how they are

[Azure Kit]

Asym, on 21 October 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

un announced immediate and severe damage.

That concept worked really well for World of Tanks for the last 7 years. Nothing is more enjoyable than just suddenly dying or getting crippled out of nowhere with no/minimal time to attempt to evade.

[dario03]

I would be fine with changing the time back if we also reduce damage on strikes again.

[Trissila]

No thanks. That garbage gets spammed hard enough as it is. The moment someone sees red they slap that Strike button for some free, zero-risk damage. Because why wouldn't they? Their team has 24 of the things, the cost basically nothing, and any damage that came with no risk is good damage.

Quote

That is the point to these weapons: un announced immediate and severe damage.

If you don't see any balance/game design problem with this phrase... just wow. Why not give us nukes? Pony up your C-bills, press a button and instantly destroy the entire enemy team!

[Burke IV]

Back in the day TFC all "top players" knew the pyro was lame and for noobs. So hated was the pyro that often servers owned by "top clans" would boot you off if you selected that class. Nobody would ever quite explain why the pyro was any more lame than any other class. After several years i came to the conclusion that once you got past the excuses the real reason was that people didnt like getting set on fire (cause you kept on burning even after you were out of LOS) cause it prevented them enjoying the high skill fast paced play they wanted out of the game. Bng set on fire was inconvenient and clearly took no skill, made it difficult to see and aim aswell.

I just feel like im seeing the exact same patterns.

Edited by Burke IV, 21 October 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[ocular tb]

I'd rather see less strikes and not more. In fact I wouldn't mind if they were removed altogether to be honest.

[R0gal D0rn]

Sorry but no.
Those last days I had to renounce to play something slower than 100 K/H, only because the teams was full of happy guys with new toys, mainly Osiris and atm Artic Wolves.... Giving a **** about the slowies, and being killed really fast if the other team supported their fatties, or they refused to die too much too soon.

Arty strike is a good idea in a much more organized teamplay.
In Pugs, it only means a tool given for easy to hide mechs to troll slow enemies.

Really, i have done it myself: Put the smoke just in the back of the assaults, open their backs and kill them with some long range gun...
I have a nice video where I killed 5 mechs in CW just popping a Air strike in their back and shooting a pair of ppc agaist them in a pesky stormcrow...
Arty strike is a very powerful weapon if you know how to use it, and if youre patient to put it in the right moment...
But patience is rarely a light pilots virtue... XD

[El Bandito]

Remove Strikes, or limit them to Light/Medium mechs only. Only then you can buff it however you want. I personally wish Strikes to be removed cause it claims to add something positive to the game, but does the opposite. This is Mechwarrior online, not Strikewarrior Online.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Spheroid]

Reduction in consumable spam is a change widely hailed by the community. You are very much in the minority here and apparently unaware of the forum topics posted in the last two months.

[Aleski]

How can you say that ?

Arties are OP as hell ! You can damage ennemies with no back fire, you can hide and abuse of them. They should remove it completely, these consumables are garbage and really kill the game sometimes. Sometimes, ennemy team has 24 of them !

I mean 24 !? They can nuke all the assaults of your team in a huge oblivion without even fighting ! What's the fun in that ? I never use them because of that.

[Burke IV]

Asym, on 21 October 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

I concerned that MWO is becoming an arcade FPS only platform that does not require any advance, combined arms teamwork.... That's what many of us saw in the MWOWC Semi-finals where assault ERLL vomit mechs stood, in the open, on top of a freaking hill no less, providing long range overwatch fire..... LRM's and unannounced ARTY/AS's whould have eliminated that gameplay because those Assaults whould have been obliterated.....

Looks absolutly bang on the money to me.

[Baba Yogi]

El Bandito, on 21 October 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Remove Strikes, or limit them to Light/Medium mechs only. Only then you can buff it however you want. I personally wish Strikes to be removed cause it claims to add something positive to the game, but does the opposite. This is Mechwarrior online, not Strikewarrior Online.

I would actually second that as well. It is not a fun mechanic but more importantly it is not needed either. It adds nothing to the game but actually does something no other weapon can do, free 140 dmg alpha strike against enemy team with no heat/tonnage cost with unlimited range and capability to strike behind covers and multiple enemies. It has to be removed or nerfed to oblivion.

[Rakshasa]

In one Mining Collective match yesterday, artillery strikes and air strikes were basically the weather. You couldn't move, turn, open fire or fart without red smoke and explosions raising down. It was the opposite of fun.

Strikes are plenty powerful, especially with the right skills. Remove any form of early warning and they would become even more abusable.

[Tarl Cabot]

Give us the opportunity to shoot down the craft dropping the airstrikes so that they drop early or not at all...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 October 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[Toothless]

Few things cause less fun than airstrikes, and its been the case since first implementation.

[arcana75]

Asym, on 21 October 2017 - 07:02 AM, said:

Well, the deathball, NASCAR, Competition community finally has what it wanted: useless or ineffective indirect fire or consumable weapons.

There is too much time to react to the smoke to make the Arty or AS consumables seriously effective.
That is a real problem. Scouts see the groups of mechs and are not able to effectively break them up or alter the consequences. 7 seconds is a lifetime in MWO. There should be an audiable warning to the enemy of "incoming" or something; but, telling them where its coming from just doesn't make sense. Of course some will say we actually use smoke to mark positions today ! Yes, we do ! Usually in Urban areas and if we are "danger close" to the enemy.....and, even that is going away as there are other IFF tools in play now......

That is the point to these weapons: un announced immediate and severe damage. The nerf's to LRMs/ARTEMIS render those indirect fire systems ineffective as a proactive deterent system.... They just aren't dangerous enough to seriously attrit on coming enemy formations especially if they are in the open because they don't need cover!

I concerned that MWO is becoming an arcade FPS only platform that does not require any advance, combined arms teamwork.... That's what many of us saw in the MWOWC Semi-finals where assault ERLL vomit mechs stood, in the open, on top of a freaking hill no less, providing long range overwatch fire..... LRM's and unannounced ARTY/AS's whould have eliminated that gameplay because those Assaults whould have been obliterated.....

This situation is decisive because it alters the gameplay at the upper levels of MWO in that those players are playing a completly "different" game than the rest of us.... They don't need AMS or Radar Dep because there aren't any indirect fire weapons used? They use Air Strikes as "anticipated route or location" deterents..... But, more often than not, even the best of the best miss because of the lag between smoke and effect.....

I know, it's a game and all but, geeze, let's either call it quits for teams and combined arms or just drop Solaris.... Having stuff that doesn't work as intended is counter intuitive and isn't a quality experience.

OK, I'd like to hear what the non hate crew really think and have a good discussion....

I hate them, and never once used them, but I think you're using them wrong.

It's incredibly effective against snipers too focused on zooming in to notice the smoke, or snipers who are backing up, so drop the arty behind them, or on a group of slow assaults, or on top of the thingy at each cap point, enemy cappers usually don't spot the smoke as they're busy looking for enemies coming for them.

Air strikes are incredibly deadly in FP mode, at the gates of hell.

But if anything the global timer should be something like 30 seconds.

Edited by arcana75, 21 October 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[R Valentine]

I'd much rather they eliminated airstrikes and artillery strikes entirely and never put them back. I hate consumables and how good this game makes them.

[MischiefSC]

So the ability to buy 400 damage for 80k cbills with no risk is a horrible, terrible, horri-terribad (trademark pending!) Idea to begin with.

All consumables are bad. If someone wants coolant flush let them spend tonnage on the system like Solaris had. Same with UAV. Buy a 1 ton launcher and 2 per ton like ammo. Airstrikes and arty should only be triggered by in game events like scouting in FW or calling dropships in invasion mode.

[Shifty McSwift]

Thinking about it, just for gameplay alone they probably shouldn't actually damage back armor either that and/or they should always target armored areas before damaging internals