55 replies to this topic

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

no its not. you fail at math class.

a 100 tonner has 313 total structure points

313 x 0.3 = 93.9 structure points

its 93.9 more structure points not 19

the structure bonus is applied to the ENTIRE mech not just one location.

He's probably counting per location. An Atlas would get 18.6 structure to it's CT with a 30% boost - Rounded up to 19 structure.

It's really not that much of a buff.

[davoodoo]

Bombast, on 22 October 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

He's probably counting per location. An Atlas would get 18.6 structure to it's CT with a 30% boost - Rounded up to 19 structure.

It's really not that much of a buff.

that guy gets it.

in the end extra structure on arms and legs of assault means little as everyone tries to kill ct

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

endo steel gives +5 tons on a 100 ton mech

93.9 structure points = +3 tons
ferro on a 100 ton mech = ~+2 tons

so you save about the same as endo.

again youd take stdstr/ferro for survivability and endo/stdarm for speed/firepower. thered be a reason to use both depending on the mech.

I dont need any more armor/structure on legs and arms, in fact id be willing to shove off some structure off them for extra dhs.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 October 2017 - 09:31 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

IS small and small pulse lasers suck.

IS medium lasers suck.

IS large laser sucks.

IS endo steel structure and ferro fibrous armor options suck.

STD engine and IS XL engine sucks, and LFE is still worse than cXL.

IS gauss (all 3 of them) suck for their crits/tonnage.

I could go on, but, like, you get the point. IS sucks save a few decent robots that keep getting nerfed. Which really sucks.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 22 October 2017 - 09:34 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

He's probably counting per location. An Atlas would get 18.6 structure to it's CT with a 30% boost - Rounded up to 19 structure.

It's really not that much of a buff.

I suppose thats true if youre a potato and stand completely still and let people drill your CT

most good atlas pilots torso twist though

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I suppose thats true if youre a potato and stand completely still and let people drill your CT

most good atlas pilots torso twist though

Most good pilots shoot the crotch or the head, which don't twist. Not that you really need to, the 'Mech doesn't twist faster than the majority of your lasers can burn.

[Khobai]

Quote

Most good pilots shoot the crotch or the head, which don't twist. Not that you really need to, the 'Mech doesn't twist faster than the majority of your lasers can burn.

yes but if youre playing against other players that are that good, you wouldnt be using an atlas. so your point is kindve moot.

a good player can take an atlas into a quickplay game with a bunch of potatos

but a good player is not going to take an atlas into a custom game against a bunch of other good players

the atlas just isnt a top tier assault. you arnt going to use it in a serious game.

Edited by Khobai, 22 October 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I suppose thats true if youre a potato and stand completely still and let people drill your CT

most good atlas pilots torso twist though

I don't think I've seen a good pilot in an Atlas in a long, long time.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think I've seen a good pilot in an Atlas in a long, long time.

Exactly my point. If a good player uses an atlas its probably only going to be against quickplay potatos.

The Atlas needs a buff and buffing standard structure so it gives an internal structure bonus would benefit the Atlas.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

yes but if youre playing against other players that are that good, you wouldnt be using an atlas. so your point is kindve moot.

So is yours by the same token, so why would you attempt to use the "good players" justification in the first place?

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 22 October 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I suppose thats true if youre a potato and stand completely still and let people drill your CT

most good atlas pilots torso twist though

34 degrees per second twist speed on atlas, at what angle do we assume ill be fully covered assuming i looked at enemy?? 60 degrees??
that will be 1.76s
Heavy large laser got merely 1.55s duration.

But i guess if youre a potato youll just fine at arm instead of waiting for enemy to turn around to you

Edited by davoodoo, 22 October 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[Bombast]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Exactly my point. If a good player uses an atlas its probably only going to be against quickplay potatos.

The Atlas needs a buff and buffing standard structure so it gives an internal structure bonus would benefit the Atlas.

The Atlas needs help for sure, but a 30% structure buff is virtually meaningless.

I mean, look at the Atlas now - They all have +31 Armor or Structure on the CT (And more elsewhere). And it doesn't help in the slightest. Why would a paltry extra bit of structure be the turning point?

There's only one thing I can think of that would 'save' the Atlas - Make it the brawling assault and give it a significant maneuverability advantage over the other 90+ tonners. Really let that thing torso twist and use those stupidly huge arms.

Edited by Bombast, 22 October 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

So much of the IS tech/weapons/mechs suck in comparison to clan... and the balance is getting worse.

[roboPrancer]

Snazzy Dragon, on 22 October 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I could go on, but, like, you get the point. IS sucks save a few decent robots that keep getting nerfed. Which really sucks.

Why stop there though? The pointlessly superior clan tech dominates almost every weapon group.

Clan srms/lrms/mgs- half the weight.

Clan streaks- 33% more range, 33% less weight. The increased cooldown means very little given the burst damage nature of streaks.

Even the clan narc weighs a ton less and has 33% more range than the IS version, because lore?

I want to try out mixed tech on some of the more unfortunate IS chassis, just to see the actual difference it will make.

[Khobai]

Quote

There's only one thing I can think of that would 'save' the Atlas - Make it the brawling assault and give it a significant maneuverability advantage over the other 90+ tonners. Really let that thing torso twist and use those stupidly huge arms.

that makes no sense. the atlas isnt supposed to be agile or maneuverable.

its supposed to be a tank.

the only real way to bring back tanking is to go back to 8v8

mechs die to fast in 12v12 for tanking to even be a thing

[FantasticMrDark]

roboPrancer, on 22 October 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Why stop there though? The pointlessly superior clan tech dominates almost every weapon group.

Clan srms/lrms/mgs- half the weight.

Clan streaks- 33% more range, 33% less weight. The increased cooldown means very little given the burst damage nature of streaks.

Even the clan narc weighs a ton less and has 33% more range than the IS version, because lore?

I want to try out mixed tech on some of the more unfortunate IS chassis, just to see the actual difference it will make.

I wanna play this game to

Clan Machine guns: Identical stats but weigh half of IS machine guns.

Clan LBX: All weigh less and take up less space

Clan UAC2: Weighs less uses less crit slots and has better range.

Clan L-AMS/BAP:Weighs less

Are we missing anything else?
Wait I remembered another one. Alot of clan omni pods have structure quirks.

Edited by FantasticMrDark, 22 October 2017 - 11:09 AM.

[TheArisen]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

that makes no sense. the atlas isnt supposed to be agile or maneuverable.

its supposed to be a tank.

the only real way to bring back tanking is to go back to 8v8

mechs die to fast in 12v12 for tanking to even be a thing

Well power creep has also killed tanking. When most Clan heavies & assaults can carry 80pt alphas that's two shotting an Atlas basically

[SirNotlag]

I agree it could do with a buff but people have been saying that longer than I've been playing and nothing has been done about it so i doubt anything will ever be done about it unfortunately.

[Y E O N N E]

FantasticMrDark, on 22 October 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

I wanna play this game to

Clan Machine guns: Identical stats but weigh half of IS machine guns.

Clan LBX: All weigh less and take up less space

Clan UAC2: Weighs less uses less crit slots and has better range.

Clan L-AMS/BAP:Weighs less

Are we missing anything else?

Clan UACs: all weigh less than standard IS ACs and take up less space with better range than both IS ACs and IS UACs; saturation fire is a thing and single shots don't adequately compensate.

Clan Heatsinks: same disspiation and heat capacity for 2/3 the slots

Clan Targeting computers: better stats per ton and per slot, as if the IS could afford to bring a TC II to compete with a cTC I.

We could do this all day...

[ApolloKaras]

Revis Volek, on 22 October 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

wut?

lol I'm with you completely Revis...

[TheMadTypist]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Exactly my point. If a good player uses an atlas its probably only going to be against quickplay potatos.

The Atlas needs a buff and buffing standard structure so it gives an internal structure bonus would benefit the Atlas.

Uh... Endo gives +5 tons to the Atlas. I'm sorry, but 19 structure points to the CT and 13 to the sides is not worth 5 tons. You'd have to give mad bonuses to the biggest 'mechs using standard structure to make it 'worthwhile', and even then you'd be investing in health over potential firepower or speed, and not the good kind of health, but the kind that gets your useful items crit out.

Replacing Endo with Ferro at max armor (assuming you haven't scraped off the legs already) is a bonus of about 2 tons. You're still running -3 tons from endo, and such a minor bonus still isn't a worthy trade. Scrape the legs a bit for extra tonnage and your 'bonus' is reduced even further, while still paying the full crit price!

Unless you add functionality to Ferro, or nerf Endo so hard it goes extinct (which would nerf a bunch of Omni's), Ferro can't compete with Endo. Giving Ferro an additional fixed bonus that you get regardless of how much armor is applied on your machine - akin to how endo is a fixed bonus for every build on the same chassis- would be a start. Maybe making Ferro reduce incoming damage, like a hard DR value for every attack against it, would be worthwhile.