19 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

---> http://www.strawpoll.me/14234183

After the recent patch, strike damage is no longer included in your total damage count. Some people liked this change. But it was a bug, and a hotfix will soon revert this to the way that it used to be. I'd like to know if the community feels strongly about this.

If your feelings are more complicated than a simple yes or no, please comment your ideas below.






Warning, my opinions/bias follows:

I like it with strikes not counting towards your damage. It means that if you roll a high damage game, you know that every point of damage was dealt by you, and that feels good. When strike damage is included, you never know how much of that damage came from a pair of lucky strikes. I don't enjoy feeling pressured to spam strikes to put up impressive numbers at the end of the game, and I don't enjoy not knowing whether to trust that somebody else's 1300 damage brag included two mega strikes or not.


"Strikes cost C-Bills, you should be rewarded for the damage they deal."

Actually, damage only rewards 21 C-Bills per point (last I checked). Which means one strike dealing 300 damage would only net you 6,300 C-Bills, making up for only 16% of its own cost. With the amount of strikes I spam, I feel I very rarely get kills, assists, or component destruction with my strikes, and the damage they deal is their main contribution by a very wide margin. But hey, if you're lucky and get one component destruction, you may be able to earn back up to 25% of the C-Bills you paid. Still a pittance. Add a bonus KMDD and it's up to 50% at most, so you're still not *earning* C-Bills for using them, you're paying.

Strikes should be used strategically to win games, not mindlessly spammed to inflate personal scores. It's the winning games that actually earns you the big bucks.

[Nightbird]

I'd want to know how much damage it does, if I'm spending 320k cbills in strikes in one match.

I wouldn't care if it didn't contribute to personal score or anything.

Edited by Nightbird, 24 October 2017 - 08:04 PM.

[El Bandito]

Even average of 5,000 C-Bills per pop is something I gladly take, as I use 8 strikes per FP match.

As for counting towards damage, I couldn't care less which way PGI rolls.

[Kiiyor]

Yes, it should.

It's damage you've done. Pretending it isn't there doesn't invalidate it.

I'd say that if PGI don't want to include the damage numbers, perhaps to disincentivize the (controversial) use of strikes as a way for players with higher cash reserves to gain an advantage of those poor chumps at the bottom of the c-bill food chain, they should work harder towards adjusting the entire strike mechanic, rather than hiding it.

[InvictusLee]

I actually hate strikes.
Not because they are annoying, but because they allow for free damage, and up until very recently, they would get spammed non-stop making any number of mechs go cherry red fast.

Theres no skill in that, and no range too it.
You can throw them from across the map, and aslong as you have a good eye, hit every single mech in the enemy team.

I just wish they'd be removed altogether.

[HGAK47]

Is it too hard to have two scores? One for the strikes and one for mech weaps?

[Trissila]

Strikes should be removed from the game, so yes, their damage should not count.

[jjm1]

IMO Consumable damage and team damage should be displayed in the final match score sheet.

[Kanil]

I'd rather know how much damage I did without strikes than know how much damage I did with them... ... but ideally I'd be able to know both.

[DivineTomatoes]

Nope. If it didn't then the strike cancer kiddies might actually have to learn to shoot and put themselves in harms way.

[El Bandito]

Reaver2145, on 24 October 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

Nope. If it didn't then the strike cancer kiddies might actually have to learn to shoot and put themselves in harms way.

Strikes have nothing to do with the ability to shoot or not. In fact, good pilots tend to spam strikes, more than scrubs.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 October 2017 - 10:54 PM.

[Tarogato]

JENNER llC, on 24 October 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

well that settles it , the community has voted and they dont want them to count

Not so fast there, little mech!

It's only about a 60/40 split in favour of not-counting-strikes. I would like to see something much more like 70/30 before I would even consider tweeting Russ "hey, yo, so ... this might be a popular opinion". When I initially posted this to Reddit, it was about 70/30, but here on the forums it's going much more even.

[Daggett]

I'm unsure if strikes should count or not. And i think the poll is skewed a bit by not having such an option.

I would rather like a more detailed result-screen which lists exactly which weapon did how much damage.
Regarding other player's numbers i don't care much. I forget them a few seconds later anyway...

[Paigan]

Tarogato, on 24 October 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

[...]
I like it with strikes not counting towards your damage. It means that if you roll a high damage game, you know that every point of damage was dealt by you, and that feels good. When strike damage is included, you never know how much of that damage came from a pair of lucky strikes. I don't enjoy feeling pressured to spam strikes to put up impressive numbers at the end of the game, and I don't enjoy not knowing whether to trust that somebody else's 1300 damage brag included two mega strikes or not.
[...]

Good point. Sold.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Tarogato, on 24 October 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Warning, my opinions/bias follows:

I like it with strikes not counting towards your damage. It means that if you roll a high damage game, you know that every point of damage was dealt by you, and that feels good. When strike damage is included, you never know how much of that damage came from a pair of lucky strikes. I don't enjoy feeling pressured to spam strikes to put up impressive numbers at the end of the game, and I don't enjoy not knowing whether to trust that somebody else's 1300 damage brag included two mega strikes or not.

Better yet, PGI should give us a full breakdown of damage dealt by method at the end of a match. I want to know how much damage each individual weapon did in the match and how many kills and component destructions they generated, and I want the same for individual strikes. This tells me what parts of my loadout contribute most to my performance so I can tweak my builds better, and how effective individual strikes were so that I know how to place them better in the future. Similar breakdowns for UAV and cool shot usage would also be helpful.

They should still count towards the grand total though. Damage is damage.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 25 October 2017 - 12:52 AM.

[Zader39]

Tarogato, on 24 October 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

---> http://www.strawpoll.me/14234183

Warning, my opinions/bias follows:

I like it with strikes not counting towards your damage. It means that if you roll a high damage game, you know that every point of damage was dealt by you, and that feels good. When strike damage is included, you never know how much of that damage came from a pair of lucky strikes. I don't enjoy feeling pressured to spam strikes to put up impressive numbers at the end of the game, and I don't enjoy not knowing whether to trust that somebody else's 1300 damage brag included two mega strikes or not.

Strikes definitely need to count, although it would be nice to get a breakdown of what damage you do w/ Strikes and with Weapons.

If I'm in one of my "scout" mechs (Like my Shadow Cat SHC-B skilled to carry two artillery/strikes), and I work my way around the flank to narc and spot, then I want to be rewarded for my effort. Part of that reward is from damage done to the enemy - as well as incidental kills on damaged mechs, counting for kill assists, and so forth. You need to make it pay for itself.

(if it does count towards assists - I'm really not sure). It also needs to be fixed so that strikes that you drop that hit after you die counts as damage - it currently doesn't register. I can see enemies taking direct hits on my "death screen" - which should add to the damage shown on my death screen right after death. My post game damage total should have a higher value if I hit with strikes right after dying. It doesn't at the moment, which is frustrating.

Just my .02, but I definitely think it needs to count.

[chucklesMuch]

I'd like to know both.

But if by not showing we won't get cbills back for using them then I would prefer to include them, as spamming strikes is very common and getting even a few space bucks back adds up.

Good stats OP this game it seems...

[Paigan]

Reading the different arguments, I realized:

The decision depends on how "total damage" is seen.
If it is seen as, say "Mech performance", counting the strikes is wrong.
If it is seen as "overall performance", counting the strikes is right.

But it's not that simple: a single lucky strike can cause MASSIVE amounts of damage that reflect much more luck than tactical skill. Sure, placing the strike is a tactical performance that should count. But no single well-placed attack reflects skill worth several hundred points of damage. Damage dealt by a strike is not really comparable to damage dealt by the mech directly (hm, with the exception of indirectly fired LRMs, maybe ...).

My conclusion is:
The only fair solution would be to differentiate the information more.
Something like "directly dealt damage" (everything the Mech did) and "indirectly dealt damage" (everything that strikes did, theoretically also mines and other stuff).

Only then could the guys who see damage dealt as an indicator for Mech performance have a reliable number and at the same time have the flanking sneaky strike guy have his efforts represented properly.

Of course this is all highly irrelevant, because PGI will never do it.
They don't even show KMDD or "relevant damage" (all damage dealt to armor, components and items that lead to the actual destruction of stuff to factor out useless damage spraying that never breaches armor)

Edited by Paigan, 25 October 2017 - 01:42 AM.

[TheArisen]

I voted for them not to be included as I think they're spammed way too much as is and there needs to be a reason to take other things, or at least not just double strikes.

[Asym]

Zader39, on 25 October 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

Strikes definitely need to count, although it would be nice to get a breakdown of what damage you do w/ Strikes and with Weapons.

If I'm in one of my "scout" mechs (Like my Shadow Cat SHC-B skilled to carry two artillery/strikes), and I work my way around the flank to narc and spot, then I want to be rewarded for my effort. Part of that reward is from damage done to the enemy - as well as incidental kills on damaged mechs, counting for kill assists, and so forth. You need to make it pay for itself.

(if it does count towards assists - I'm really not sure). It also needs to be fixed so that strikes that you drop that hit after you die counts as damage - it currently doesn't register. I can see enemies taking direct hits on my "death screen" - which should add to the damage shown on my death screen right after death. My post game damage total should have a higher value if I hit with strikes right after dying. It doesn't at the moment, which is frustrating.

Just my .02, but I definitely think it needs to count.

I agree. Reward damage. Reward the pilots who have chosen IDF support roles... Punish pilots who stupidly use strikes and create massive blue-on-blue damage. Use the WoW model and turn their icons "pink" and that condition lasts several games until you can prove you aren't either too dangerous to everyone or intentionally dangerous to the game.... Pink pilots are blocked from strikes till their color returns to blue. Pink means either side can exclude you from drops or kill you the moment you do something stupid a second time..... AND, I believe that targeting computers should be tied to strikes....to have a weapons "cost" of use beyond the MC or C-bill costs for consumables.
The bigger the TC, the more accurate, concentrated, prolonged and damaging the strike.... TC1 = 30% less dmg then current values. TC2 = 10% less that current Dmg. TC3 = pariety to current dmg..... Or, something like that. Lights with TAGs would be excluded and the TAG must remain on the target and the strike would center or align on the TAG'd target.

This is a severaly skewed survey because a vast majority of the people who post on this forum hate everything that isn't related to FPS combat and their personal areas of comfort.... That is fine but there are hundreds of us that would rather be a part of a team that doesn't include just FPS'ing antics.....

Edited by Asym, 25 October 2017 - 05:42 AM.