60 replies to this topic

[Cato Zilks]

So I have seen several people spout off that PGI has moved many people over to the MW5 team, they have cannibalized the the MWO staff, etc. I have seen animation errors in recent mechs cited as examples, but that just says that that department has struggled with getting large mechpacks out on time (or that it got to them late). That does not tell me that there are fewer animators working on MWO, or that they took the experienced crew over to MW5. It just says that their job was not done on time.

What I have not seen is any proof that MWO staff has been at all affected by the MW5 project.

Do any of you know of people that were moved over and not replaced?
Do any of have evidence that the MWO staff is smaller?

Give names.

If you don't have such proof, then stop besmirching one of the two companies in existence willing to make your battletech games. Critique is fine when grounded in fact, but accusations not grounded in fact are slander.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 10 November 2017 - 05:54 PM.

[Maxxi]

Dude, play the game and be happy.

[Nightbird]

Unless it's presented as the truth, it's just people opining.

[Deathlike]

If you think the quality of patches have improved since work on MW5, such as mech animations, new weapons, and the skill tree "bugs", then there's really nothing to see here.

The little things are fine by those standards.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 November 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[Khobai]

development on MWO seems to have come to a grinding halt

so its a good bet its because of MW5

[El Bandito]

I mostly care about balance patches, and even those seem to have been slowing down. It really doesn't take several months for the LBX (especially IS LBX) to be shown some love--post balance director change. And it doesn't take a genius to see that base tech needs to be balanced first, before weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 November 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Meh. Development seems about the same. They tossed the goodie of Solaris with custom geos and promises of a new map/faction updates. That's pretty standard for them.

[Xetelian]

I think the thread that got removed had a lot of strong points as to the current state of progress and patches.

You may not be able to prove that they did or didn't take MWO staff to MW5 but I'm sure Russ is overseeing both so there is one guy we can be sure is splitting his time and maybe that is all it took to slow things down. Maybe we don't give Russ enough credit for how things have been being handled or maybe I'm giving him too much credit.


I agree that something is amiss when walking animations for multiple mechs have been really wonky. It is probably a lot to do with how short a window they have to produce the mechs after the mechpack starts pre-ordering and the frequency of mechpacks.


We have a new balance underlord and LBX weapons are still garbage and the Timberwolf still has negative quirks but that is probably because they expect that nerfing everything else into oblivion will make LBX desirable, that is at least what I feel like they're up to.

[Cato Zilks]

Xetelian, on 10 November 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

You may not be able to prove that they did or didn't take MWO staff to MW5 but I'm sure Russ is overseeing both so there is one guy we can be sure is splitting his time and maybe that is all it took to slow things down. Maybe we don't give Russ enough credit for how things have been being handled or maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

I think it is fair to say that Russ and other leads may very well have split focus. But they have for sometime now. Also, having the president of the company splitting his time should not have a notable effect on the game production. But maybe you are right and Russ not being 100% on this had a negative effect. I cede that this is possible, I just don't think it is likely.

More importantly, I don't see Russ having split time as a justification for claiming that the company is ignoring or under staffing this game.

Xetelian, on 10 November 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

I agree that something is amiss when walking animations for multiple mechs have been really wonky. It is probably a lot to do with how short a window they have to produce the mechs after the mechpack starts pre-ordering and the frequency of mechpacks.

Yeah, if I had to bet the staff was used to the mech-a-month model, so when they switched back to packs, the design team did not give the animations crew enough time. Also, they were modeling new weapons during the time for that first pack as well. I think we will see better consistency with the upcoming patches where they are back to the mech-a-month model.

[Cato Zilks]

Khobai, on 10 November 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

development on MWO seems to have come to a grinding halt

so its a good bet its because of MW5

They have a map coming out this month, another one due out soon, an new game mode scheduled for early next year. They just introduced new weapons, We have 8 new mechs since june, several heroes added. How has development ground to a halt?

It seems more like people have poor memories about the positives in this game.

El Bandito, on 10 November 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

I mostly care about balance patches, and even those seem to have been slowing down. It really doesn't take several months for the LBX (especially IS LBX) to be shown some love--post balance director change. And it doesn't take a genius to see that base tech needs to be balanced first, before weapons.

I am with you on this. A major problem with balance passes is doing them piecemeal. For example, nerfing medium lasers may fit in with a coherent grand scheme of Chris', but when done peicemeal it makes certain weapons suck and we rebel. I think they need to abandon the tweak it method, make some bold changes and put them on several iterations of PTSs.

BUT, this does not seem show that they took people off MWO. Again, they added Chris to do just this job. They expanded the staff for MWO.

[Connor Davion]

I would be OK if they put MWO on maintenance mode and put everyone on MW5. More people on MW5 = a better product, made faster (I hope).

I do like this game but if they had released a single player Battletech/MechWarrior product that was good at any point during the previous 3 or 4 years I probably would have quit playing MWO a long time ago.

Now if they had released the MWO they advertised when they were looking for backers then MW5 wouldn't probably need to be made or they could have made a single player add-on to MWO.

[Spheroid]

Actually the premise is both plausible and highly likely. If someone provides the proof you demand what would your response be? I am guessing you had not planned for that and would sit dumbfounded. I am sure that Sony had no intention of North Korea hacking them, nor the DNC, nor the State Department etc. But info deemed not for disclosure can and does enter the public realm.

Legal and ethical hurdles presents a barrier from obtaining that info. We should not assume it is ficticious.

[kuma8877]

With Solaris coming (also shift to 8v8 for testing?) and all that that might entail (maps?, MM, leaderboards, etc.), plus the player selected custom geo system (models and store front end additions), inbound announced maps and Mechcon looming, seems to me that they would still have to be pretty focused on MWO to be getting all of that together in a timely fashion.

[Jackal Noble]

Cato Zilks, on 10 November 2017 - 09:22 PM, said:

They have a map coming out this month, another one due out soon, an new game mode scheduled for early next year. They just introduced new weapons, We have 8 new mechs since june, several heroes added. How has development ground to a halt?

It seems more like people have poor memories about the positives in this game.

I am with you on this. A major problem with balance passes is doing them piecemeal. For example, nerfing medium lasers may fit in with a coherent grand scheme of Chris', but when done peicemeal it makes certain weapons suck and we rebel. I think they need to abandon the tweak it method, make some bold changes and put them on several iterations of PTSs.

BUT, this does not seem show that they took people off MWO. Again, they added Chris to do just this job. They expanded the staff for MWO.

How much more "content" do you think we have left before there is nothing left, which is concurrently also the major source of income for this game? Like for real kiddo.

Bonus round - Before this coming map, when was the last map added?

Don't get me wrong, I for one think the events/rewards and faction stuff is of the right mindset, absolutely (cept that initial major screw up), it's just if it had been done sooner a lot more people would have enjoyed it.


I also think some of the ui updates have been nice, but again how long coming?

[Cato Zilks]

El Bandito, on 10 November 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

This upcoming patch is a huge disappointment for people who were waiting for noticeable balance pass. Do people in PGI just smoke weed all day? https://mwomercs.com...-2017/#gameplay

Well... they are in Vancouver...
But seriously, idk. A lot needs tweaking, but again I think those changes would need an overhaul not just a series of monthly tweaks.

Spheroid, on 10 November 2017 - 09:23 PM, said:

Actually the premise is both plausible and highly likely. If someone provides the proof you demand what would your response be? I am guessing you had not planned for that and would sit dumbfounded. I am sure that Sony had no intention of North Korea hacking them, nor the DNC, nor the State Department etc. But info deemed not for disclosure can and does enter the public realm.
Legal and ethical hurdles presents a barrier from obtaining that info. We should not assume it is ficticious.

OK, there is no legal hangup to a company saying what project a person is working on or for a former employee to say why they left. But this is not the point.
PGI has done a lot this last year and the argument that MW5 is taking away doesn't seem to hold water. We have seen a lot of changes and new content in the last year.

To answer your question, if someone provided some proof that MW5 had taken away from MWO, I would go to twitter and start asking Russ and Paul what's up with that. Russ publicly said that would not be the case. I find that PGI staff to be super responsive to polite and precise questions. Then I would come back here with whatever answer I received.

JackalBeast, on 10 November 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

How much more "content" do you think we have left before there is nothing left, which is concurrently also the major source of income for this game? Like for real kiddo.
Bonus round - Before this coming map, when was the last map added?
Don't get me wrong, I for one think the events/rewards and faction stuff is of the right mindset, absolutely (cept that initial major screw up), it's just if it had been done sooner a lot more people would have enjoyed it.
I also think some of the ui updates have been nice, but again how long coming?

Bonus answer, march 2016. We complained in a town hall and Russ had the team double down on maps. One is coming out next week, more soon. The giant urban map supposedly looks pretty cool.

Yes, PGI is small and slow. No denying that. Russ has said as much himself in townhalls.

Edited by Cato Zilks, 10 November 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Cato Zilks]

[redacted]

Khobai, on 10 November 2017 - 10:51 PM, said:

well the game is in a death cycle

they have to keep focusing on selling mechpacks but at some point thats not gonna generate income anymore because power creep can only go on for so long

See people have been saying this for years, but so far it just is not true. They could start selling new variants for cheap if they started having trouble with new mech packs. They can find ways to monetize the game. As far as content, they could release a mech-a-month for the next three years and not come close to exhausting the mechs that are already in the wanted mech polls. Russ has also said that at some point they will probably have to switch over to a newer engine at which point superfast mechs and melee can come into the game and further open up options for new mechs.

But the real problem is that people are so willing to consign the game to the flames over things that are unsubstantiated. Look, if you are pissed because PGI is so damn slow, I get that. I think El Bandito is giving some valid critiques. But the complaints that are thrown around are that PGI is not putting in the effort and are going to pull the plug. All the evidence says those accusations are untrue and malicious rumors like these do not benefit our game in anyway.

Edited by McValium, 11 November 2017 - 12:43 AM.
removed quote

[Khobai]

then who the hell keeps buying mechpacks?

because I dont buy mechpacks anymore. and everyone I know who used to play is gone

and all evidence shows the game is hemorrhaging players

is it just whales supporting the game? like a small handful of people buying every single mechpack ever made

[Trenchbird]

Cato Zilks, on 10 November 2017 - 11:15 PM, said:

They can find ways to monetize the game.

To be fair, a vocal portion fanbase has been literally saying 'WE WILL SHOVEL MONEY FOR X FEATURE DIRECTLY INTO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT" for years now, too, and some/most rather good ideas have gotten outright ignored.

Edited by Catten Hart, 11 November 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[FallingAce]

Either PGI fired all their map makers, all their map maker quit, or...



PGI's map makers are making maps for MW5

you decide.

[McValium]

Cleaned up the thread. I would highly advise to continue to discuss in a friendly and calm manner and please refrain from additional attacks on staff.