192 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I'll tell you what pretty much everyone will tell you. If you're the last mech standing because you're in an ECM light, and you're just running away at the end of the match and not engaging at all, then you're against TOS.

If you're engaging you're technically in the right, but keep in mind, you ARE holding up everyone else's mechs for the remainder of the match. Granted everyone signed up for a 15 minute match, but watching a lame dual ERLL ECM raven run around and poke at range isn't exactly fun for the rest of us.

[Krivvan]

They don't have the right to tell you to suicide if you're still fighting, but also don't kid yourself into thinking that you were describing the height of tactics and strategy or something. Now I wasn't there watching the game, so I don't know what it was like. If you really were earnestly trying to win, then whatever. If you were taking one shot every few minutes and spent most of the time running and hiding, I'd admittedly get annoyed too.

MWO can exhibit quite a bit of tactics and strategy, but you won't see it in solo queue.

Also, I would not want MWO to feel like MWLL. They're very different games with very different goals. MWO's closer to a shooter than MWLL is.

Edited by Krivvan, 21 March 2016 - 02:34 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Nope. What you are typing is completely correct of you. You do not need to scream banzai and suicide into the enemy team. If they are too dense to follow the big blue lines (this is even possible with ECM) and predict where you will turn up next, then they shouldnt complain about wasting time.

[kesmai]

If you are still playing, like you described it, the ones telling they report you are the *******. Even if you can't win there is no obligation for you to suicide. I've seen lonely survivors winning matches. So play like you do. It is ok.

[EvilCow]

We should also consider the pride of that last mechwarrior.

If people are so annoyed by the LMS then he/she should be given an escape way. So the last mech will either escape or be killed while attempting to do so.

Extending the concept, the escape way should be opened when one team is overwhelmingly willing (4:1 ratio or something like this).

The escape could be represented by a dropship placed out of boundaries or landing in one of the drop zones.

Edited by EvilCow, 21 March 2016 - 02:54 AM.

[Groovdog]

To me it depends on how you are doing it. Some lights run for a solid minute to take a single shot. If you are dodging and weaving I personally dont mind especially if there are some known easy potential kills. But everyone is different and I will usually encourage the 8-9 on 1 guy to charge esp if they end up real close to the enemy when the 2nd to last guy dies. My personal favorite is the guy who tries to run in a heavy and gets surrounded without getting a shot off. 9-1 you are not getting away, just do as much damage as you can...

Edited by Groovdog, 21 March 2016 - 02:53 AM.

[MrMadguy]

There are several rules, that you should take into account:
1) Dying at the end of match - isn't suicide. Suicide - is dying fast right after beginning of match to quit map/mode you don't like without any contribution towards victory. If you already contributed - it isn't suicide. Otherwise any attack on enemy 'Mechs will be considered suicide, which is nonsense. Being weaker than enemies, outnumbered, having small chances to succeed or being damaged - aren't valid excuses for avoiding engagement. The only valid excuse - being completely weaponless.
2) Avoiding engaging with enemy 'Mechs is against COC
3) Needlessly dragging match out is against COC
4) Enemies have right to secure their win - they're not obligated to chase you or search for you. So, it's up to you to engage with them.

So. You can use tactical hiding ("short term hiding") - i.e. hide at place, enemies know, that you're at, pass enemies by, ambush them. But you should never hide at places, enemies don't know - it's treated as "avoiding engaging". "Setting up ambush at the corner of the map" - isn't valid tactic. Remember? They aren't obligated to search for you. You can keep some distance between you and enemies in order to increase chances of successive attacks. But you can't play "survival squirrel" - i.e. just run around map, keeping safe distance only to drag the match out.

I really hope, Skirmish will be fixed soon, so players will have limited engage timer, so they won't be able to hide for 10 minutes. 75 second in my example. This timer expires - you automatically lose. Every mode has conditions, that prevent players from playing way too passively and using unfair starvation tactics. Except Skirmish. You can't run away and hide at Assault, Conquest and Domination. You hide - you lose. Hiding is against intended spirit of Skirmish. And Skirmish should be fixed.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 March 2016 - 03:30 AM.

[kesmai]

Even if he is taking his time to position and he shoots every other minute, it is his right to do so. Even if he is powering down for 2 minutes to let enemy mechs pass his position it is his right to do so. You can do a lot if there 3-10 minutes left. If the player in question is Obviously still participating, there is no need to report him/her. The "mech-lock" argument does not Count at all. If you don't want to watch the rest of a match just quit and drop in another mech.

[Catra Lanis]

You are under no obligation whatsoever to get killed just to get the match over with just because some kiddies with no attention span can't wait a few extra minutes. You are fully within your rights to try and get an extra kill, do some damage and get more C-Bills. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm so tired of this whining.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 21 March 2016 - 03:25 AM.

[Davegt27]

OP its your Mech do what you want

[C E Dwyer]

People cry about tactic's and call it time wasting, when they were stupid and got killed for doing dumb things, is very much the way people behave, if you feel that your being picked on report them and let PGI decide if your are time wasting or using tactics, or just shrug and not be bothered about the threats as if people put in a false report, they will be the ones with a black mark and moderated if they continue to waste supports time.

However I think there is nothing anyone can learn from the MMLL community unless its to be even more abusive to inexperienced players, my one visit there left me feeling wow, no wonder hardly anyone bothers with this place.

The only thing of value there is properly working Jump jets, now that is something PGI could learn from, as I have been missing pop tarting because this poke alpha hide play is even worse
ohh and large flatter maps to make LRM's useful

Edited by Cathy, 21 March 2016 - 03:20 AM.

[MrMadguy]

As I already said. Hiding for no more, than one minute total, in order to improve your position - is tolerable. But once you have hidden somewhere at the map, so enemies have to go and search for you - you're avoiding engagement, needlessly dragging out the match, running out the clock - and it's against COC. So if enemies don't see you within some tolerable amount of time - they have a right to report you for being AFK. As they can't see you - they can't say if this is true or not. And they can't rely of what you and your team say, cuz you're enemies for them. Playing survival squirrel - is more tolerable. But if you do it for too long without trying to fight against enemies - it sill can be treated as avoiding engaging, dragging out the match or even griefing. As simple, as that. It's rules. Deal with it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 March 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[thehiddenedge]

If you can keep engaging them and don't run off and hide the whole time, I see no reason why you shouldn't try to take a few down with you, even if that means a drawn out fight. On the other hand, if you're cored out, legged, have one autocannon shell and a laser left (basically, you don't stand a chance), I'd say get it over with. There are 23 other people you're playing with and it's unfair to needlessly hold them up.


I had almost this exact same scenario happen last night. It was 6 to 1 fresh ERLL ECM Raven on Grim Plexus with 6 minutes left. People were spread out trying to find him and getting picked off one at a time of course. All I had left were SRM's in my slow *** ARC-5W and I wasn't in good shape so I had to somehow get close to him without being seen. I ran to hide in between some of the buildings after the two I was with got taken down just 400m in front of me. Somehow this dude literally strolls (slowly) right by without seeing me, and I catch him off guard at 80m. We fight for a bit and I get stripped, cherry red CT, yet somehow he doesn't kill me. It's 2-1 at this point so I'm just trying my hardest to not get killed. This Mad Dog who had been off doing his own thing while this was happening makes his way over while I'm busy trying to keep a building between the Raven and I and he finishes him off with 13 seconds left in the match.

Just saying, that one dude almost robbed us of our victory, so it's worth a shot.

[RockmachinE]

Honestly in an 8 v 1 just do the right thing and rush the enemy. It makes no sense to prolong the inevitable.

Quote

thats the game and comunity to learn from if we want real mech simulator

I like MWLL, but MWO is not a mech simulator and neither is MWLL. They're both action oriented with LL being more tactical and MWO being more fast paced.

[mogs01gt]

I dont believe the OP was attacking anyone. I've never seen anyone say "Im reporting you" when the last mech is still firing shots.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"If you're engaging you're technically in the right, but keep in mind, you ARE holding up everyone else's mechs for the remainder of the match. Granted everyone signed up for a 15 minute match, but watching a lame dual ERLL ECM raven run around and poke at range isn't exactly fun for the rest of us. "

Not only no, but no.

Hey OP, ignore all of what he said. You get to play the game too. If they are so hot to drop, they can grab a different mech. Just because they died before you gives them no right to tell you when to "finish" the game.

When I'm last man standing I practice my hit and runs in my Raven. I may not be able to flip a 4-1 disadvantage, but the practice I get may help me flip a 2-1 later on. Ignore the Precious Snowflakes who want you to report for suicide.

[Raggedyman]

marsas, on 21 March 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

so my question is - if you left last man standing you should just scream "banzai" ant atack them straight into face?, people seems to love stupid meatgrinding in the midle of map but if you use tacticks and strategy then they start crying that you waist they time .
what your opinion on that?

I have two thoughts on this.

First: here are the Non-participation rules:

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Out of all the Code of Conduct guidelines, the interpretation of what constitutes non-participation is probably the most commonly debated.

The purpose of the information below is to clarify our policies on non-participation, and to outline what can be classified as non-participation.

Going AFK (away from keyboard)

The absence of even one player in a match can directly impact the playing experience and level of enjoyment for all other players in that match. Initiating the search for a match should be seen as an unspoken commitment to all other players who will be placed into the same match.

We completely understand that life goes on regardless of your participation in a game, but walking away from the computer or alt+tabbing out to browse the internet after initiating a match and not returning in time to provide meaningful assistance to your teammates are considered acts of non-participation.

Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation

All pilots have access to a Shutdown command for their ‘Mechs, mapped by default to the ‘P’ key and listed as ‘Toggle Power’ in the keyboard menu.

The primary benefit to shutting down your ‘Mech is that it will no longer appear on enemy radar. In the deciding moments of a close match with few ‘Mechs left standing on the battlefield, effective use of the shutdown mechanic and/or evasion tactics has the potential to provide you with the following benefits:

Breaking a target lock
Appearing ‘heat neutral’ on maps where Thermal Vision might commonly be used
Presenting on opportunity for staging an ambush
Evading detection long enough to secure a win through Conquest points
Evading detection long enough to secure a timer expiration win when you have superior numbers, in circumstances where you may be too critically damaged to otherwise risk a direct engagement with the enemy
The above situations are considered to be within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended to be used for.

There are situations that do not fall within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended for. The use of the shutdown mechanic or avoiding contact with the enemy under the following situations may be classed as an act of non-participation, subject to evaluation and moderation actions by Support services:

Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.
Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.
Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.
Disliking a map or game mode or attempting to preserve a player statistic such as Kill/Death Ratio are not acceptable excuses for non-participation

Secondly whilst the tone of the above maybe influenced by the community the people that actually enforce those rules are PGI, so only their opinion when/if they look at an abuse report actually counts.

Read the rules, try to stick to both the words and the spirit of them, and play as you feel appropriate based on that. And if anyone gives you grief report them for PGI do decide on and roll with it, as the next drop is always just couple of minutes away.

Edited by Raggedyman, 21 March 2016 - 04:55 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Quote

So. You can use tactical hiding ("short term hiding") - i.e. hide at place, enemies know, that you're at, pass enemies by, ambush them. But you should never hide at places, enemies don't know - it's treated as "avoiding engaging". "Setting up ambush at the corner of the map" - isn't valid tactic. Remember? They aren't obligated to search for you. You can keep some distance between you and enemies in order to increase chances of successive attacks. But you can't play "survival squirrel" - i.e. just run around map, keeping safe distance only to drag the match out.

This is also wrong. And note how they are now defining what are "valid" tactics... LOL. If you want to spend the last 8 mins of a match settting up an ambush for just one mech - go for it. Doesn't matter that the match is already lost or that your tactics aren't "approved" by the Precious Snowflakes.

[Catho Sharn]

MrMadguy, on 21 March 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

4) Enemies have right to secure their win - they're not obligated to chase you or search for you. So, it's up to you to engage with them.

Sorry, that's bull. Victory isn't a right, it's a goal. A light pilot using cover and sniping is under no obligation to stand in the open or charge the enemy to give them an easy win.

Is it annoying to wait? Yes, sometimes. Go get a drink or stretch your legs if you can't stand watching.

[Baelfire]

mogs01gt, on 21 March 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

I dont believe the OP was attacking anyone. I've never seen anyone say "Im reporting you" when the last mech is still firing shots.

We probably don't play the same game then. I have seen people getting threatened when they were still fighting or even trying to win the game. I remember one guy who called me a coward because i wasn't crawling to the enemy for execution in my legged Panther... on conquest, with our team leading 700:320 with 3 blue caps. Some people are just like that.

Personally i always try to get the best possible result for my team. If this means i have to take one for team and to die early, i do not have a problem with that (like running into our base to prevent a cap and buy some time for the team). But if i'm the last man standing i have also no problems to hide for a minute or two if the only chance for a kill or win is to wait until the enemy split up to search for me. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you never know before you tried it. However, i never run away hide for 8 minutes just because i lost my weapons or i'm out of ammo, because just surviving is no advantage for my team. If someone has a problem with that and reports me, that's fine for me.

Edited by Baelfire, 21 March 2016 - 05:15 AM.