84 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

You can think the existence of the "skill" tree to allowing double strikes to be available since the consumable module inception (which initially allowed you to carry one of each for a period of time).

[Bogus]

Strikes don't really bother me, they just seem like an inevitable response to the whole cover-and-alpha thing we have going on.

[Khobai]

strikes need to be limited to one per mech

like how it used to be before PGI forgot why they limited to one per mech in the first place

Strikes are also way too good compared to the other consumables and they need to tone them down so theyre more in line with coolant and UAVs. And strikes certainly should not be better than the one-shot rocket launcher which actually takes up tonnage/crits and a hardpoint.

Edited by Khobai, 05 November 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[R Valentine]

Strikes have been out of control since the skill tree, and they've nerfed everything but strikes since. I'd rather they just removed all consumables from the game.

[Mcgral18]

Jun Watarase, on 05 November 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Strikes are very underpowered now. Almost anyone can walk out of the AOE before it lands, and even those that dont can stand there and take barely any damage.

"Barely any damage" meaning a max of 15 damage to any component

Rear armor from Assault mechs
Dead Spheroid XL Lights, and otherwise heavily damaged Lights/Mediums


Assaults are relatively safe, until multiple drop down. At that point, positioning should be vastly improved

[Tier5 Kerensky]

No, they are not POWERFUL. If you'd use them yourself you'd see it.

[Lukoi Banacek]

As long as they're in, I'll use them.

I think they should be in (at least at the level of 1 per player). If PGI wants to cap them because some folks cannot handle them, that's fine by me. I enjoy them because they add another element to the game to disrupt deathballs and position play and that adds another dimension to the tactics of this game.

I can certainly see reducing them to 1 per player (I'll just spend the SP somewhere else) to appease those that seem to have problems dealing with them, but I don't find them to be any more OP than LRM's, ATM's, RAC's or MRM's at this point tbh.

[Ace Selin]

Xulld, on 05 November 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

I want to shoot stompy robits not push a button for a strike.

Agreed. Remove arty / airstrikes

[Mystere]

Strikes are right now the perfect cure to PeekabooWarriorOnline. They should stay.

Edited by Mystere, 05 November 2017 - 08:49 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Strikes are right now the perfect cure to PeekabooWarriorOnline. They should stay.

Except they dont cure that at all because people still do it every game.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Khobai, on 05 November 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Except they dont cure that at all because people still do it every game.

Then clearly people need to use their strikes better

[PAYWALL]

Bud Crue, on 05 November 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

I'm kinda indifferent to the whole strikes are P2W or there are too many strikes points of view. I mean I don't mind em per se, I use em on some mechs, don't on others, so too it seems do most other players of the geme.

From a mechanical perspective though, I have noticed one thing: air strikes are consistently far more effective than arty. The elongated path vs the circular path of impacts ought to be the distinction, but I notice that when I use or am hit by air strikes they do damage far outside of their apparent path as well as regardless of structure. Whereas arty I am sometimes right in the midst of a strike or on the edge and I take zero damage (even in the open) and that intervening structures provide apparent cover as well (Plus the fact that air strikes will hit your targets back armor as it marches over and arty strikes don't seem to do this nearly as much).

So yeah...I don't really care about them existing or costing money, but they ought to at least be comparable. Right now though, if you're using them; air strikes are the way to go.

Airstrikes have no RNGesus element and are a predictable source of damage. And like you said targets often escape the smoke in the direction of the strike and get hit twice. And also i think we need the strikes as counter to hunkered down murderballs in some game situations. The problem is i equip coolshots most of the time, because they let you finish mechs after extended fights and then i have no access to the "mech grenade". They are meta lifesavers in my opinion. My suggestion is to limit strikes only to specific mechs or classes (fast scout mediums/light mechs) that lack firepower and make them independent from skillnodes. Also they need to get a cost reduction. 40k cbills is too much, if you want to use two of them (and you need if you want to be effective). And the game also could use some other AoE stuff like long tom or such. I had many matches were whole groups of mechs just cowered behind the citadel in river city and waited for enemy assault. Even dropping some strikes on them didn't force their assaults and heavies to come out. Prohibit strikes and AoE weapons is not the solution, but the whole "strike system" needs a rework.

Edited by PAYWALL, 05 November 2017 - 10:40 PM.

[Trissila]

Khobai, on 05 November 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

Except they dont cure that at all because people still do it every game.

And it's also not how they are deployed.

99% of the time, strikes are "See Red, Slap Button". It's garbage gameplay and it needs to go.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 05 November 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Strikes are right now the perfect cure to PeekabooWarriorOnline. They should stay.

Except it is not. It is very easy to peekaboo, while switching positions.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 05 November 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Except it is not. It is very easy to peekaboo, while switching positions.

I have observed that a whole lot of players in QP do not, then they get hit by a strike, and run to the forums to complain.

[Alcom Isst]

Mystere, on 06 November 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

I have observed that a whole lot of players in QP do not, then they get hit by a strike, and run to the forums to complain.

Yeah, bad players don't like strikes.
Also, good players don't like strikes.
Most players don't like strikes, but they get used anyways because it's free damage except for a small but optional SP cost and there's an ugly pressure to use a bad game mechanic because the opposing team is also using that game mechanic.

[Khobai]

Quote

And also i think we need the strikes as counter to hunkered down murderballs in some game situations.

the solution to murderballs before 12v12 was just not to have them exist: and they largely didnt exist in 8v8. which is one of many reasons why the game should go back to 8v8.

weapons like swarm/thunder lrms, longtom, and arrowIV could also punish murderballs.Itd be better balanced because they would actually take up tonnage and have a downside instead of being spammed by everyone on both teams.

And one strike consumable per mech is fine. we dont need two per mech thats too many.

Edited by Khobai, 06 November 2017 - 08:06 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

I love strikes. First they add so much visual flare to the game. I actually almost always use all my strikes just so I can look at them.

They also serve a gameplay purpose, which is to punish static hiding, especially groups of mechs huddling together. Since the widespread use of strikes this particular form of cowardice has become very costly, and that is a good thing.

Lastly, strikes help break stalemates and drive mechs out of overly defensible sniping positions, which again makes gameplay more dynamic.

Strikes were too strong after the skill tree came into effect, but now they are in a good place.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Alcom Isst, on 06 November 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Most players don't like strikes, but they get used anyways because it's free damage except for a small but optional SP cost and there's an ugly pressure to use a bad game mechanic because the opposing team is also using that game mechanic.

I use strikes because I can, not because I have some weird sosial pressures to do what others do.

[Asym]

Alcom Isst, on 05 November 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

I almost like a tonnage requirement except for the fact that it limits light mechs more than it limits assaults as the tonnage is more valuable on a light. Also targeting computers are already equipped to every super-meta laser boat and Summoner poptart, so using TC only increases the current meta disparity.

Just get rid of this gib money for free damage garbage. It's not fun to use except for the cheap thrill of hitting several mechs at once, it's never fun to play against. The pressure to burn your c-bills or real money on free damage garbage that most players don't actually like is the worst thing in this game. It's worse than the snowball, worse than every matchmaking issue, worse than every UI problem combined, worse than the German typo in the Zeus that's been there for like 3 years.

I think a solution for lights, that are slot or tonnage limited could be that a .5 ton TC could be added to the game or tie the TAG weapon to strikes; have a TAG and you don't need a TC but, you gain accuracy but lose some to spread..... Tie TC's, TAG's and Skill Tree nodes together, you get "what you paid for" in damage and accuracy. And, maybe, introduce roles again that can produce significant damage??? Or, do I have this wrong?