81 replies to this topic

[Roodkapje]

El Bandito, on 06 November 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

TBF, those games are old. Newer titles mostly have some sort of CoF.

Old but still the best in their own category!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Curccu, on 06 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

We also didn't have HSR so you had to lead Jenner by 1-3 mech lenghts to hit it with lasers...

I really hate this kind of hyperbolic statement.

YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, I'm not asking for removal of HSR... that's entirely pointless to bring up.

Jesus christ, sometimes the lack of inferance ability from people is staggering.

KEEP THE GOOD, CHANGE THE BAD, this isn't ******* rocket science.

Khobai, on 06 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

so what you want is hawken. go play that. dont try to screw up other games when your dream game already exists.

Hawken is ****, but it's not because of it's CoF/Bloom reticle... go get f'd.

[Tarogato]

Wolfways, on 06 November 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Just add reticle bounce based on movement. Your cockpit, and the pilot (you) bounce around while moving. I mean have you seen the ridiculous bouncing animations for some mechs (looking at you RVN).

Give each mech:
Standstill = no reticle movement.
Walking speed = small reticle bounce.
Running speed = bigger reticle bounce.

You want to aim well? Stand still.
You want to run around like a lunatic? Suffer worse aim, or get closer to your target.

Remember the static PPFLD jumpsnipe Cataphract / Dragon Slayer meta from 2013?

> Can't shoot accurately while moving

This is how you get a static meta. Just sitting around trading with ERLL. On the bright side, it would kill nascar. On the other bright side, I personally rather enjoy trading meta. But I have a strong feeling that this is not what most players want. There's a reason why people look back on the PPFLD meta with contempt, not reverence.

[Curccu]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 06 November 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

I really hate this kind of hyperbolic statement.

YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, I'm not asking for removal of HSR... that's entirely pointless to bring up.

It's not pointless, it was huuuge part of that old longer TTK.

[Y E O N N E]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 November 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

UT and Quake not completely devoid of RNG. UT's flak cannon, minigun, and assault rifle weapons all have, some degree of RNG, and to some extent the Rocket launcher's swirly triple-shot mode. Quake's shotgun and machine gun weapons both have spread. And both games have random respawns.

Hmm, they are RNG but then they are not, because they are fixed to only scale with distance. You never used any of them outside ranges where the fire density wasn't favorable. Bloom is different. Bloom changes the fire per distance per unit of time, AKA it gets wider even if it doesn't get farther.

Incorrect on the spiral rockets, those always went exactly where you were pointing when you released the button and gave you three explosions in one place, and they always started that spiral from the same point.

Quote

CS is another game with a high skill ceiling that has both movement accuracy penalties and recoil.

CS is also more like CoD than UT or Quake because relative health pools are so low. Like CoD and BF, it's more about initiative than aiming skill, especially because the first three shots more or less go where you think they will every time and certain weapons like the AK will kill in one hit to the head, and the first shot is always perfect.

[Wolfways]

Tarogato, on 06 November 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Remember the static PPFLD jumpsnipe Cataphract / Dragon Slayer meta from 2013?

> Can't shoot accurately while moving

This is how you get a static meta. Just sitting around trading with ERLL. On the bright side, it would kill nascar. On the other bright side, I personally rather enjoy trading meta. But I have a strong feeling that this is not what most players want. There's a reason why people look back on the PPFLD meta with contempt, not reverence.

Obviously using JJ's should give even more reticle shake to the point where you would have to be lucky to hit the target if you weren't within very short range
The problem with brawlers getting close to longer ranged builds...well I just don't understand that. Not with MWO's maps.

[Khobai]

Quote

Give each mech:
Standstill = no reticle movement.
Walking speed = small reticle bounce.
Running speed = bigger reticle bounce.

I have a better idea. Lets just make the reticle shake like crazy all the time for no reason.

the only time the reticle shouldnt shake is if youre standing exactly still, with one arm braced against a tree or rock, and when your mech is crouched. and only when its a odd numbered day of the month on even numbered months but not if its between 8am or 10am or on a sunday.

[ESC 907]

So this sounds like a good idea. But rather than convergence on where you're aiming, I would suggest making it so that there isn't convergence if a target isn't locked, but if you lock onto a target, it converges to be pin-point at the range/trajectory of the locked target. This actually sounds really interesting, and would further incentivize locking targets. Perhaps something for PTS?

[Jackal Noble]

Make the reticle expand and accuracy decrease as more weapons are fired or as heat increases to a threshold, simulating the mechwarriors' fatigue due to the heat in the cockpit?

Edited by JackalBeast, 06 November 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 06 November 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Make the reticle expand and accuracy decrease as more weapons are fired or as heat increases to a threshold, simulating the mechwarriors' fatigue due to the heat in the cockpit?

I rather prefer the lock-on because it allows you to add radar profiles to 'Mechs that change how long it takes to get a lock on them and/or how powerful the stock sensor pack is per 'Mech. Now you can buff durability without buffing durability and create new roles on the battlefield so some 'Mechs can more readily pre-lock targets so others can get their lock faster and bring the big guns to bare.

[El Bandito]

Curccu, on 06 November 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Well UT3 is "just" 4 years older than MWO.

It is staying faithful to the original UT to keep the fan base.

[Curccu]

El Bandito, on 06 November 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

It is staying faithful to the original UT to keep the fan base.

And that is great loved all of UTs.

[El Bandito]

Curccu, on 06 November 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

And that is great loved all of UTs.

MWO is not UT though, and CoF has its place here.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 06 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

so what you want is hawken. go play that. dont try to screw up other games when your dream game already exists.

Except Hawken didn't have any movement penalties.

Some other notable games without penalties for not standing still also include the Halo franchise, Team Fortress, Overwatch (and "clone" games based on it), pretty much every classic shooter (Doom, Serious Sam, Duke Nukem, etc.), and of course the entire Mechwarrior series.

I seriously don't understand why so many people on this forum have such an irrational hatred of being able to fire weapons (effectively) and move at the same time.

Edited by FupDup, 06 November 2017 - 11:54 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I seriously don't understand why so many people on this forum have such an irrational hatred of being able to fire weapons (effectively) and move at the same time.

seems like they have an irrational hatred of being able to fire weapons effectively at all...

they just want to turn the game into RNG spray and pray.

[qS Sachiel]

Why do we have another thread for this within the week, if it's literally hashing over the same points verbatim (many of which flawed).

Is convergence the eau de jour hmm?
I preferred the whining about airstrikes and machineguns. Convergence whinging is just people with myopia who can't afford the requisite optical aides to play the game at their given distance to screen.

El Bandito, on 06 November 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

MWO is not UT though, and CoF has its place here.

Similarly MWO is not BF or ghost recon, and i'd argue it's better represented by arcade arena shooters than the 'modern shooter' of today.

Edited by qS Sachiel, 07 November 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Wolfways, on 06 November 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Just add reticle bounce based on movement. Your cockpit, and the pilot (you) bounce around while moving. I mean have you seen the ridiculous bouncing animations for some mechs (looking at you RVN).

Give each mech:
Standstill = no reticle movement.
Walking speed = small reticle bounce.
Running speed = bigger reticle bounce.

You want to aim well? Stand still.
You want to run around like a lunatic? Suffer worse aim, or get closer to your target.

Excellent idea!

Heat should also take an effect.

Up to 25% treshold = no shake
25-50% = minor shake
50-75% = heavy shake (like jumping or masc now)
Over 75% = heavy shake and low signal (as under ecm or jammer)

[Trissila]

FupDup, on 06 November 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

Except Hawken didn't have any movement penalties.

Some other notable games without penalties for not standing still also include the Halo franchise, Team Fortress, Overwatch (and "clone" games based on it), pretty much every classic shooter (Doom, Serious Sam, Duke Nukem, etc.), and of course the entire Mechwarrior series.

I seriously don't understand why so many people on this forum have such an irrational hatred of being able to fire weapons (effectively) and move at the same time.

Because they want their 'mechs to be able to tank a boatload of enemy fire, just like in the novels! They want to be able to carry one SRM-6, two ER Small Lasers, and a PPC without getting crushed by someone that actually knows how to build a 'mech. They want their joystick/pedals cockpit setup to be competitive with a mouse and keyboard.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the most Shooter firing by 200m-1000m to 1,80 m tall Targets , not 18m Tall targets ...

thats the TableTop problem :fights with Machines 10x highter as a Human Soldier with Infantry Weapon Ranges (ok Human Sniper to 2000m and more )

and 'Mechs do not breathe or have nervous muscle tremors, or have to target through optical systems and the eye

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 07 November 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 06 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

so what you want is hawken. go play that. dont try to screw up other games when your dream game already exists.

Hawken did away with bloom after it came out of beta.

It's dead on PC, now, so it's all immaterial.