16 replies to this topic

[Torothin]

I only own a timber wolf but have been eyeing a Linebacker. What are the pros and cons and which variant should I look at? I am more of a gauss, ppc and laser kind of guy...

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The Linebacker is best used for short-ranged laservomit or SRM boating, both of which it is fairly good at because it moves like a medium. It can run PPCs or Gauss (not both), but is not optimal for either because it has extremely limited tonnage for sinks and/or secondary weapons.

Here's what's left over if you put a Gauss in a Linebacker with only two tons of ammo.

Basically, the LBK has way too much engine if you're going to be hanging back and peeking with it. The strength of the chassis is its mobility, and if your build doesn't take advantage of that then you'd get more out of another 'Mech like the Ebon Jaguar or Hellbringer- both of which (also 65-tonners, like the LBK) offer enough tonnage to run Gauss, PPCs, or longer-ranged laservomit with adequate sinks and backup weapons. If you intend to spearhead pushes and flanking attacks and dive into the thick of the action at close range, then the LBK will serve you well.

[Torothin]

What I figured. A close range brawler. Is there a certain variant I should go for?

[Koniving]

Torothin, on 11 November 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

I only own a timber wolf but have been eyeing a Linebacker. What are the pros and cons and which variant should I look at? I am more of a gauss, ppc and laser kind of guy...

Like the Timber Wolf, it's an Omnimech. Beyond the set of 8 quirks... it doesn't really matter which variant you get as you'd just change the omnipods to you rliking anyway.. The quirks really depend on if you care or not, and if so it isn't our place to tell you which one to get.

This said, the mech is fast. 97 kph stock. It has decent speed. Good weapon options. It still has enough tonnage to have decent weapons, so you can go with numerous weapons or a few big ones or some combination. Decent field of view.

If it has any flaws, they would be... it's a WIDE target. The legs like to eat bullets and break. You'll scare the living **** out of anyone you rush, and as such they will drop everything they have into you when you surprise 'em. If there was ever a complaint to be made, its probably that there's not enough room if you fill it with enough heatsinks to keep it cool, and if you don't it runs hot.

Edited by Koniving, 11 November 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[Tesunie]

Torothin, on 11 November 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

I only own a timber wolf but have been eyeing a Linebacker. What are the pros and cons and which variant should I look at? I am more of a gauss, ppc and laser kind of guy...

Depends upon what you are looking for. It's got good armor quirks (for now) combined with good speed. It can't jump (yet) and it has a little less pod space than most Omni-mechs of it's size. (Large engine and all.)

I have found that the Linebacker Prime can work well with dual ERPPC (and dual SRM4s). It's a strike, fade and reposition mech at that point, it it can be very doable. Probably not what most people consider to be "good" for it, nor "common" anymore, but it is very workable in such a role.

As for lasers, it can pack a reasonable ERML payload and play a good mid/close range if desired. I personally have one with 2 HLLs and 3 ERMLs that can play a good mid ranged game utilizing it's speed to flank and maintain range. It's actually one of my favorite designs I've developed, and one of only two builds for the Linebacker I've done that I have felt was successful.

The last thing that the Linebacker can do is SRM boating, being a beast in close combat and be fast enough to get there. I've not had much luck with this design, but it currently is the running meta for the mech, and can be powerful in the right hands, right situation and if hit reg (my issue) is on your side.

So, really, it's all about what you expect it to do. It wont work like a Timberwolf, but it is different and is a reasonably good mech.

WrathOfDeadguy, on 11 November 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Basically, the LBK has way too much engine if you're going to be hanging back and peeking with it.

Depends upon what you mean by "hanging back". I find my Linebacker works very well as a mid range poker/flanker. I tend to try and keep 400-600m between me and the enemy (though I am not afraid to get into a brawl). The speed I find is good for maintaining my ranges. I have a very similar build on my Marauder IIC (2 HLLs and 6 ERMLs) and it packs a punch, typically taking limbs and sections from any mech foolish enough to let me look at them long enough, but it can't maintain ranges to keep it better paced. Hence, it works well on the Linebacker, as I can scoot and cool as needed a little better because of it's speed.

It all depends upon how you set it up and what you expect from the mech.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I probably should have been a little more clear.

It's just that if you aren't going to be leaning heavily on the mobility advantage of your chassis, then there are other 'Mechs that are better weapon platforms in the same tonnage range- especially if you want to run larger, heavier guns like Gauss or PPCs. If you're already using your mobility to full effect, for whatever role, then you've got the right 'Mech for you and that's great.

Laservomit is a completely different species from other direct-fire weapons in that it isn't tonnage-intensive. Compare HLL+ERML vomit on a LBK vs a HBR. The EBJ can do it too, but runs out of crits before tonnage unless you change out some of the ERMLs for MPLs or use LPL instead of HLL. It's a straight tradeoff with this build- speed for firepower. Now an ADR and a COU, with the same build type.

Clan laservomit is consistent and scaleable- it's the build that's the exception to almost every rule because you can carry a deadly midrange+ pinpoint alpha that costs less in tonnage than a single large ballistic, and the only limiting factors are your heat capacity and aiming skill. As long as you can alpha without cooking yourself, you're viable, so the LBK runs it roughly as well as any other chassis despite the limited podspace (plus, four of its locked tons are sinks, which is what you'd have used them for anyway with that build). What chassis you want to run laservomit on largely comes down to player preference; nearly everything with more than four energy hardpoints is good at it unless the chassis itself is terrible.

But... the LBK will never be a good chassis for Gauss, whereas the HBR, TBR, and EBJ are great for it (even a SCR would be better for Gauss- and with the same top speed as a LBK), and there are better choices for ERPPCs as well (the HBK-IIC-A comes to mind- only about 8 kph slower but with far more available tonnage despite being 15 tons lighter, so you can run enough sinks to spam lightning for days). Those options are not as easily scaleable as pure laservomit, especially short-midrange laservomit, or SRMs, and just aren't quite as good when shoehorned into a tonnage-limited chassis.

[Torothin]

Thanks guys. Is the line backer and omni mech?

[Tesunie]

Torothin, on 12 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Thanks guys. Is the line backer and omni mech?

Yes, it is an Omnimech, just like the Timberwolf.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Torothin, on 12 November 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Thanks guys. Is the line backer and omni mech?

That it is, so you can swap arms, legs, heads and side torsos if needed, heads and legs not so much, dont think the Linebacker has any hardpoints in the head. Legs are also prly a moot point as they prly aren't any different between the choices.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Linebacker also works very well as a long range ERPPC mech. You can get an ERPPC in each side torso very high mounted, the high mobility lets you peek very quickly. Its up there with the Summoner when it comes to dual ERPPC builds.

At mid range it works well with 6 MPL and you could also go with super high alpha like with the Hellbringer 6ERML+2HLL but you'd have less cooling but more agility.

[Tesunie]

Dakota1000, on 12 November 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:

At mid range it works well with 6 MPL and you could also go with super high alpha like with the Hellbringer 6ERML+2HLL but you'd have less cooling but more agility.

That's like... what? A single alpha and you shut down if you did that on a Linebacker? Might not be the best design. The cooling would just be too far lacking. I think (not sure) that a build like that may be pushing even the Hellbringer...

PS: In regards to your signature, K/D actually is rather irrelevant. I've seen some players with high K/D rates actually be more of a detriment to their teams than a help. If anything a low W/L indicates a player who may be statistically bringing down a team.

[panzer1b]

Its a very good mech, but the main issue with it is that it is NOT versatile, and there will be games where you get utterly screwed over due to team composition (wotrks amazing in a coordinated team drop though, 12 linebackers are glorious). Pretty much, it has great armor and agility making it prolly the tankiest clan mech available, but it has so little weapon tonnage available that the ONLY 3 really solid options on it is MPL boat, SRMs, with the 3rd choice being poke loadout using heavy lasers to achieve 60ish alfa strike.

Personally the only loadout ive had traction with is 6MPLs, since it offers pinpoint hitscan with short enough duration if you get all 4 skills, and comes with both good sustained and burst DPS. Its sorta like a AC-40 though, but fires a bit faster, while having more limited sustain cause its alot hotter.

If you enjoy fast brawlers, its the only mech clam really has that can do it and do it well, but if you want to carry alot of guns or have a versatile heavy, its not for you...

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Tesunie, on 12 November 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

That's like... what? A single alpha and you shut down if you did that on a Linebacker? Might not be the best design. The cooling would just be too far lacking. I think (not sure) that a build like that may be pushing even the Hellbringer...

PS: In regards to your signature, K/D actually is rather irrelevant. I've seen some players with high K/D rates actually be more of a detriment to their teams than a help. If anything a low W/L indicates a player who may be statistically bringing down a team.

Pretty much every high alpha build acts like that, you get one alpha out then you wait to cool down to fire another one, its purely a trade winner build, nothing much is going to out damage you in that time in a trade so you can easily put out a lot of damage over the course of the game. For example, you peak out and do 78 damage against someone and they hit you with 42 (6 ERML worth), you've won the trade by 36 points of damage and will kill him first, by the second trade you're nearly an alpha worth ahead of him.

As for my signature, aside from KDR farmers who just kill steal and then hide or run, fairly killing the enemies brings your team closer to a victory than anything else when the game is won in any mode through killing all the enemy team's mechs. Win rate is how often you win, saying winrate determines how likely you are to win is like saying your KDR determines how many kills you get per death, its entirely circular and obvious.

[Tesunie]

Dakota1000, on 26 November 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Pretty much every high alpha build acts like that, you get one alpha out then you wait to cool down to fire another one, its purely a trade winner build, nothing much is going to out damage you in that time in a trade so you can easily put out a lot of damage over the course of the game. For example, you peak out and do 78 damage against someone and they hit you with 42 (6 ERML worth), you've won the trade by 36 points of damage and will kill him first, by the second trade you're nearly an alpha worth ahead of him.

As for my signature, aside from KDR farmers who just kill steal and then hide or run, fairly killing the enemies brings your team closer to a victory than anything else when the game is won in any mode through killing all the enemy team's mechs. Win rate is how often you win, saying winrate determines how likely you are to win is like saying your KDR determines how many kills you get per death, its entirely circular and obvious.

True. It is a trade off there and different roles. I guess I just like to have a little more cooling when possible so I can keep a bit more pressure on people. Hence I have 3 ERMLs and 2 HLLs instead. Lets me be able to alpha a few more times. For a Linebacker, I think it works well, as I can shoot, reposition and determine my own ranges more than on other like mechs, such as the Hellbringer or Marauder IIC (which each of those builds are slower and have more weapons over my Linebacker). Different builds, different tactics, different tactical considerations. Each are good in their own right and their own place.



On not of K/D rate, even you mentioned it can be gimmicked and "farmed". W/L is a lot more challenging to manipulate and as this is a team game W/L I feel is more likely to show if someone will be more helpful to a team or not.

I've witnessed people hold themselves back so they can drop enemy mechs more easily at the end of the match, which often resulted in a loss but increased their K/D ratio. Then there are also people like me, who tend to work within the team and get a better W/L than a K/D. I know I tend to get 1-3 KMDDs and an occasional Solo kill, but rarely end up with actual kills (though lots of assists).

You are correct that there is a correlation between killing the enemy team and winning in most cases, but the one getting the kills isn't always ones being helpful to the team. I'm sure you've witnessed them yourself, those players who will hang out back and will try to feed their team to the enemy so they can deal a little more damage... Get one more kill...

We may be at an inpass here though. We are having two different schools of thought, and it's a little outside the scope of this thread... Though I think it's an interesting topic to discuss.

[Damnedtroll]

Never been able to do something with the Linebacker. Found it good in a coordinated team, but bad in solo drop.

[Cato Phoenix]

I picked up one during the ballistic sale, running 5MPLAS and however many LMGs fit on there, it's quite handy for chewing things up. Works well in FP too if you're on a team who's rushing.

My other build is an ERPPC flanker. This plays pretty uniquely in that you're relying on snap shots and manuevering to avoid shots fired back. It can't keep up sustained fire, but you have enough speed to toss off a few shots, reposition, cool, and keep up the long range poke.

6 MPLAS could definitely work, though probably toasty.

I've never rolled the SRM/SMLAS variants, though its probably quite viable.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Tesunie, on 26 November 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

True. It is a trade off there and different roles. I guess I just like to have a little more cooling when possible so I can keep a bit more pressure on people. Hence I have 3 ERMLs and 2 HLLs instead. Lets me be able to alpha a few more times. For a Linebacker, I think it works well, as I can shoot, reposition and determine my own ranges more than on other like mechs, such as the Hellbringer or Marauder IIC (which each of those builds are slower and have more weapons over my Linebacker). Different builds, different tactics, different tactical considerations. Each are good in their own right and their own place.



On not of K/D rate, even you mentioned it can be gimmicked and "farmed". W/L is a lot more challenging to manipulate and as this is a team game W/L I feel is more likely to show if someone will be more helpful to a team or not.

I've witnessed people hold themselves back so they can drop enemy mechs more easily at the end of the match, which often resulted in a loss but increased their K/D ratio. Then there are also people like me, who tend to work within the team and get a better W/L than a K/D. I know I tend to get 1-3 KMDDs and an occasional Solo kill, but rarely end up with actual kills (though lots of assists).

You are correct that there is a correlation between killing the enemy team and winning in most cases, but the one getting the kills isn't always ones being helpful to the team. I'm sure you've witnessed them yourself, those players who will hang out back and will try to feed their team to the enemy so they can deal a little more damage... Get one more kill...

We may be at an inpass here though. We are having two different schools of thought, and it's a little outside the scope of this thread... Though I think it's an interesting topic to discuss.

Yep, different builds just do different things, I generally prefer a trading style of gameplay myself, punishing enemies who peek and demoralizing the enemy by opening up a torso section in one go on their attempt to reduce further resistance. I find it works better for me than my old build of 6 ERML that ran very cold, though both builds can be extremely powerful depending on if you're the pusher in a match or the one trying to stop them.


As for the KDR vs WLR debate, I find the WLR can also be easily gamed, players can easily be placed on teams with players far better than themselves and be carried into higher WLRs than they earned, they could also just join a unit which carries their WLR whether or not the player is really contributing. a KDR rate based on not just normal kills but kills+KMDD divided by two would make a good average, as its important to put in the damage to kill an enemy, but its just as important to get that killing blow on the enemy so he doesn't slink away to continue putting out damage from his team's backfields.