99 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Ok nothing against this play style, imo it does have its place in game, it is a defensive playstyle tGough really. You entrench your self behind a ridge or building. You "hull down" and prefer high hardpoints and cockpit. That works well for some mechs well. But the issue is....alot of people expect all mechs to be able to pull this off and honestly not all can or should. This play style usually only works if you have a good hardpoint placement with either strong mech geometry or high agility to pull back quickly and maintain your small profile (Locust, Shadowcat ect) or in some cases just rediclous ammounts of armor/structure.

But with the recent Thanatos it is further reinforces the not all mechs are able to pull this play style off. That some need to play Cavalry, and Cavalry is really only good on the offensive, pushing, flanking, harassing....So please consider when looking at the new mechs and other play styles. Just cause you can't play hull down and poke doesn't mean it's a bad robot, maybe it's bad for you but does not mean bad for the game and MAYBE this game could use some more roles filled out and given buffs to instead of allowing only poke warfare to remain dominant (if one feels it is the only play style worth playing).

On this note, maybe we should make a list of mobile chassis best served as Cavalry and Striker mechs and how to build and play them? Guides are nice, and it seems to many guides only want to focus on the easy meta rather then the larger picture and possible alternatives (that may, yes require more expertise, skill, and patience to pull off well).

TL:DR - Poke warfare is not the one and only playstyle to hold a mech too.

[Dr Hobo]

But that is the current meta.

And it should be buffed

/s


Serious discussion.

You have map issues to partly blame for that,with ghost heat,and no penalties for riding the heat curve like we do now,as well as the lack of convergence.

[Shifty McSwift]

Exactly, it is a fair enough move to make in situations and a fair enough playstyle but again it just comes back to being dropped with 11 random builds and styles that often conflict in ideal, pre game coordination and ease of doing so, would help a lot.

I will admit I am the first to grump out (or get salty whatever you wanna call it) at people who fall into tunnel vision turret mode as it often doesn't help the team to peep alone (unless you are always winning damage exchanges) like that in many ways.

[Spheroid]

The reduction to 8v8 will increase opportunities to maneuver. Is this a stealth topic lamenting that the Thanatos sucks? People should have known before the first concept art was even posted given its tech base and hardpoint configuration.

[Khobai]

going from 8v8 to 12v12 without a corresponding increase in armor/structure is what created the whole poke meta

PGI needs to go back to 8v8 or go to triple armor/structure

[stealthraccoon]

My Urbanmechs take offense to being called turrets; we prefer the term ‘semi-stationary projectile dispensing refuse receptacles’.

But who doesn’t love being painted by clan lasers at extreme ranges for the first 5 minutes of every game?

[Nightbird]

You're just telling people to git gud... get a better understanding of the game.

P.S. Thanatos is not a cavalry mech.. that requires: speed, firepower, toughness. The Thanatos is at best a sniper mech, a glass.cannon with some mobility.

[N a p e s]

Dr Hobo, on 16 November 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

Serious discussion.

You have map issues to partly blame for that,with ghost heat,and no penalties for riding the heat curve like we do now,as well as the lack of convergence.

Just nitpicking but, isn't the problem instant convergence, rather then the lack of convergence?

Perhaps, convergence mechanics?

[Y E O N N E]

What if I told you that the poking play-style is the result of the game mechanics favoring it and not something arbitrarily chosen by the players to be strong?

There is no such thing as an IS cavalry 'Mech, either. To get to the necessary speeds on such a heavy platform you have to give up firepower and toughness.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 16 November 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

going from 8v8 to 12v12 without a corresponding increase in armor/structure is what created the whole poke meta

PGI needs to go back to 8v8 or go to triple armor/structure

Um dude, armor and structure quirks, along with the new skill tree, have only been added to the game AFTER the release of 12v12. Those kick up the average HP values of every mech by a good amount. For example, even the unquirked Cheetah variants have 3.03x structure compared to TT and 2.48x armor if you max out the survival tree. The most drastically HP-buffed light mech is the MLX-D, having 7.36x structure and 3.26x armor.

I haven't finished my giant spreadsheet comparing the HP of every mech in the game (only finished lights) but I expect this trend to hold up.

Edited by FupDup, 16 November 2017 - 10:48 AM.

[Mystere]

Spheroid, on 16 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

The reduction to 8v8 will increase opportunities to maneuver ...

So will new game modes with multiple dynamic/mobile objectives paired with significant increases in map sizes.

Going back to 8v8 is both a regression and admission of defeat, while seeking to expand the game ... well, that should be obvious.

Khobai, on 16 November 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

going from 8v8 to 12v12 without a corresponding increase in armor/structure is what created the whole poke meta

PGI needs to go back to 8v8 or go to triple armor/structure

See above.

Edited by Mystere, 16 November 2017 - 01:09 PM.

[Humpday]

Well the advent of the erML and extreme cooldowns of Clan tech enforce the poke behavior.
Cooldowns on many weapons give you no choice but to poke and hide, i mean it just makes sense.

IS meds, if those get nerfed again, we'll go further down this road. I think they are trying to get those up to like 4sec cooldowns...which is a freaking eternity.

Well that and the meta is the laser vomit builds...which, i can't for the world of my figure out why thats enjoyable. Hey let my spit out this giant alpha then have to sit back forever to cool off, being lucky to get 5 alphas in to close the game.

Clan side i prefer all Pulse, for the cooldowns, dispite not being as heavy hitting, they come off cooldown much faster and aren't nearly as hot.

IS is basically all DPS now, autocannons, MRMs are good now and utterly devastating at close range. the AC20 dual snub is stupid powerful...little toasty.

[Y E O N N E]

The nerf to isERML already pushed us further down that road. The isERML competes more against the cMPL than it does the cERML, but now it is woefully inadequate at such.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

you're trying to change the plaerbase... that's a fight I've given up on for a while now.

[Jun Watarase]

Most players : Why bother learning to be mobile when i can just take a mech with high torso mounts and run mid-long range laser vomit?

Why do you think most dropdecks in FP consist of 3x laser vomit mechs with high torso mounts?

Sadly most players simply do not want to use anything else. Most of the people who bought the thanatos did it because they want to buy any new mech and are only using it for the novelty/to max out the skill tree, not because they genuinely think the thanatos will be any good. Once people finish mastering it, they are going to shove it into a corner of their hangar, forget about it and go straight back to running nothing but mid-long range laser vomit.

They arent going to waste time trying to figure out decent builds for it because that would probably involve running something other than laser vomit.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 16 November 2017 - 01:39 PM.

[Vxheous]

Humpday, on 16 November 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Well the advent of the erML and extreme cooldowns of Clan tech enforce the poke behavior.
Cooldowns on many weapons give you no choice but to poke and hide, i mean it just makes sense.

IS meds, if those get nerfed again, we'll go further down this road. I think they are trying to get those up to like 4sec cooldowns...which is a freaking eternity.

Well that and the meta is the laser vomit builds...which, i can't for the world of my figure out why thats enjoyable. Hey let my spit out this giant alpha then have to sit back forever to cool off, being lucky to get 5 alphas in to close the game.

Clan side i prefer all Pulse, for the cooldowns, dispite not being as heavy hitting, they come off cooldown much faster and aren't nearly as hot.

IS is basically all DPS now, autocannons, MRMs are good now and utterly devastating at close range. the AC20 dual snub is stupid powerful...little toasty.

If you can only get 5 laser alphas out in a game (assuming it doesn't end under 2 mins) you're doing something wrong (either mechlab, or positioning)

[CK16]

Jun Watarase, on 16 November 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Most players : Why bother learning to be mobile when i can just take a mech with high torso mounts and run mid-long range laser vomit?

Why do you think most dropdecks in FP consist of 3x laser vomit mechs with high torso mounts?

Sadly most players simply do not want to use anything else. Most of the people who bought the thanatos did it because they want to buy any new mech and are only using it for the novelty/to max out the skill tree, not because they genuinely think the thanatos will be any good. Once people finish mastering it, they are going to shove it into a corner of their hangar, forget about it and go straight back to running nothing but mid-long range laser vomit.

They arent going to waste time trying to figure out decent builds for it because that would probably involve running something other than laser vomit.

Well geeez, they must only ever eat cheese pizza and vanilla ice cream o.O

P.S. the day they nerf laser vomit and make it so firing Large class and Med class together is linked is a day I will she'd no tears, but I won't even get near reddit or the forums cause that salt will flow badly if players are forced to fire them in separate groups.

Edited by CK16, 16 November 2017 - 01:57 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Sadly most players simply do not want to use anything else.

Its not that people dont want to use anything else, its that there IS nothing else...

clan autocannons are crap, clan missiles are crap

lasers and gauss is pretty much all clans have

and people complain clans are using lasers. wtf else would they use? lmao.


its like playing rock, paper, scissors, superlaser and superlaser beats everything

why would I ever play rock, paper, or scissors? ill use superlaser every time

its the same thing with clan tech: laser vomit is the superior choice every time.

why would I ever use lol tickle cannons that are stupid to aim and spread damage like crazy and jam literally half the time when I can fire off a converging multicolored deathbeam that does like 60-80 damage and NEVER jams?

I mean FFS what do you people expect? If you want clans to stop using laser vomit, give them other weapons that arnt completely bad.

make me wanna use a CUAC then ill go and use it. lol. the CUACs are so restricted by ghost heat though they just dont do the same alpha damage that lasers do. And the jamming is awful. plus CUACs require a lot of facetime which clan mechs dont like to give because they lack the armor/structure quirks that IS mechs have.

and clan missiles get eaten alive by AMS on top of all the other issues that missile weapons have in general.

lasers are just plain better because they do maximum damage with minimal exposure. and its reliable damage that doesnt jam and cant be countered with systems like ams.

That said, I do still think large lasers and medium lasers probably need to be linked for ghost heat. But I also think clan autocannons/missiles probably need some buffs as well. Some jamming/velocity buffs would be nice.

Edited by Khobai, 16 November 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[CK16]

Imo the issue is...

Large class lasers should act as primary weapons in most cases, if you noticed in lore like at most the usual mech only mounts 2 at a time, some have 3to4, and extreme cases use 6 (Supernova....)

Medium class weapons are back ups and are normally seen in like 2 to 4 on most chassis with primary weapons like Gauss rifles, AC's, or large lasers and PPC's

Small class are almost always in very small numbers and generally there for anti light targets (infantry and light vehicles) hardly ever boated as well....so extreme last resort back ups in most cases or filler to not waste heat/ammo on a target not requiring your primary or secondary weapons.

But yea anyway

Edited by CK16, 16 November 2017 - 02:06 PM.

[Mole]

I will never understand why people constantly moan about this game being played the same way real combat happens - with rather extensive use of cover. Real soldiers only expose themselves in combat when they intend to fire their weapons or reposition. There is nobody that charges into the enemy lines one-fisting an M60 machine gun and survives. It's the same in MWO and just because you're in a giant robot doesn't mean you should be able to since the enemy is also in giant robots. It doesn't help that the person leading the charge has a relatively low survival rate, making everyone afraid to be the one that initiates a push, and as a result pushes happen less often. That being said, I play peekaboo pretty well in pretty much every 'mech I own. The geometry of the 'mech simply determines what type of terrain I will make better use of. If I have high mounted hardpoints like a Jargermech, Rifleman, Roughneck, etc, then I will be better off hill humping. If I have all my firepower in a low-slung arm, then I will be better off corner poking. Poptarting is still a viable option on a few chassis as well. Point is, I can play pokewarrior online in pretty much any chassis that I have thus far piloted, and that's almost all of them. I just have to adapt HOW I do it depending on what 'mech I am sitting in the cockpit of.