69 replies to this topic

[N0ni]

JackalBeast, on 21 November 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

just quote it twice, then like yourself.

Liking your own post is a scummy practice to participate in.

And i'm not about to start now!

[Trenchbird]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my Butterbee's door flaps.

Man, I love those things. Ain't no other 65-tonner gonna do that.

Edited by Catten Hart, 22 November 2017 - 12:59 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I absolutely love my Jester. Easily on my Top 10 list. I also have a K2 running Heavy PPCs that is pretty damn good too. My Roughneck, while a decent mech, isn't one of my favorites. It has good armor, good DPS and good hard points but I would chose my Jester or K2 over it any day.

The thing about the Catapults, at least the energy versions of it, is they have a extremely small profile compared to most other heavy mechs which make it less noticeable and harder to hit. You basically end up taking less fire in it that you would a comparable, larger heavy mech. It is one of the reasons why it doesn't have armor or structure bonuses.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jun Watarase, on 21 November 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

The roughneck having more HP than assaults is not the baseline. Its above the baseline by a massive margin. Obviously if you look at somethig as ridiculous as that, everything else sucks in comparison.

Its like saying most other assaults suck compared to the Battlemaster. Well, yes, but thats because the battlemaster pretty much invalidates every other assault because of how good it is. Literally every other assault is worse if you want to run laser vomit. You can run laser vomit zeus or stalkers but they dont come close to matching the battlemaster.

Just like how the cyclops is the best for SRM assaults and how the sleipir is the best if you want a 4x UAC 5 assault and how the annihilator is the best 100 tonner in the game at the moment.

if you want to use something for a comparison of good, look at the thunderbolt (great hitboxes, shield arms, quirks) or the jagermech (amazing for ballistics, decent hitboxes but no shield arms).

The catapault though is quite sad. Huge side torsos with no compensating durability quriks (great logic there PGI), easy to shoot off ears, easy to blind cockpit because its located right smack in the CT...

I really really dont get the logic where PGI takes a mech with great hitboxes + shield arms and gives it tons of durability quirks, while mechs with huge side torsos like the catapault or stalker get NOTHING...

Its like giving a millionaire welfare checks instead of the poor. WTF is the point?

You have so many incorrect conclusions it hurts.

Roughneck is not the best IS 65 tonner, let alone the best 65 tonner.
Annihilator is not the best 100 tonner, the Dire Wolf is. Some might argue for the Kodiak, but only a true Clan loyalist will claim the Annihilator is the best 100 tonner in the game.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Why is this discussion about the Roughneck being the best due to armour and structure?

Yes it probably is the best 65 ton brawler, it can be low heat and high armour.

It is not as good as the catapult at long range engagement or for mobility due to jump jets especially as this means the catapult can poptart SRMS and MRMs potentially doing more damage with little return fire.

The Jagermech produces a great long range dual gauss sniper and can also be an amazing second line damage dealer pumping out more DPS than the roughneck if there are other mechs tanking for it

The thunderbolt can engage with panel accuracy from longer range and can also have JJs increasing mobility and can make a good sniper as well.

Maybe the roughneck is the best short range brawler but depending on the situation it might well be far from the best 65 tonner.

[Hobbles v]

The jager tbolt and catapult lines are all stronger overall than the roughnecks.

Roughnecks have one niche where they are better and thats being mini orion srm/ac brawlers.

No roughneck can match a catapult or jager a for lrms. Or even some thunderbolts

Jagers and the cplt k2 are far better balisitc mechs

Roughnecks have no jumpers

Thunderbolts and the jester are superior for laser vomit.

All have better sniper options than roughnecks.

IS side the top dog os litterally THE top dog in the 65 ton range.

[Tordin]

N0ni, on 21 November 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only Thunderbolts with ECM are:

• TDR-11SE (Jihad, 3069)
  
• TDR-17S (Jihad, 3070)
  
• TDR-7SE (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9NAIS (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9Nr (Jihad, 3072)

Close, but not quite there yet.

Aye. Now when I think about it, its way to lonbg since I piloted a Thundebolt.
And I would love to see these

• TDR-7SE (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9NAIS (Civil War, 3067)

TDR's, since we are kinda, almost set in the CW era.
I love the uniqeness of the off-set cockpits. To me, the Thunderbolt is the IS equilant of the Summoner (Tor)

[Jay Leon Hart]

Tordin, on 22 November 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

I love the uniqeness of the off-set cockpits. To me, the Thunderbolt is the IS equilant of the Summoner (Tor)

Yep, Sarna agrees with you;

Quote

Thunderbolt - The Summoner is descended from this venerable pre-Star League era 'Mech. This is most visible in the design of the cockpit and the missile pod.

Then there's the related Hellbringer, which uses the same legs as the Summoner & was based on the Warhammer;

Quote

Warhammer - The Hellbringer is descended from this venerable mech. This is most visible in the Hellbringer's primary configuration, where it mounts a technologically upgraded but otherwise identical primary armament layout to the WHM-6R.

Which was based on the Hammerhands;

Quote

Hammerhands - The other Davion 'Mech design that influenced the creation of the Warhammer.

Which was based on the BattleAxe;

Quote

BattleAxe - The Hammerhands was designed to replace the Battleaxe and its flaws.

So I came to this came loving the Thor & Loki, and now I also love the Thunderbolt & Warhammer, with a soft spot for the Hammerhands & BattleAxe

Then the Warhammer leads me to the Defiance & Thug, the Loki & Thor lead me to the Sunder, the Thor leads me to the Falconer & Thresher... it's a rabbit hole of related 'mechs

[Dimento Graven]

Kuaron, on 21 November 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Most of the 65 t IS Mechs are good.
No idea about the Jagermecht, though, I just don't have one.

As long as no one shoots at it, it's great.

The only REAL way to load up two gauss with some backup weapons is to load an IS XL, and crimany, if after ALL THESE YEARS people AREN'T trying to open up the side torso for XL checking on an IS 'mech... They're either VERY new, or a petrified potato.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Dimento Graven, on 22 November 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

As long as no one shoots at it, it's great.

The only REAL way to load up two gauss with some backup weapons is to load an IS XL, and crimany, if after ALL THESE YEARS people AREN'T trying to open up the side torso for XL checking on an IS 'mech... They're either VERY new, or a petrified potato.

Not really that big a problem when you are behind your brawl line and at range, plus the Jagers dont have too big a side torso.

[LT. HARDCASE]

N0ni, on 21 November 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only Thunderbolts with ECM are:

• TDR-11SE (Jihad, 3069)
  
• TDR-17S (Jihad, 3070)
  
• TDR-7SE (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9NAIS (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9Nr (Jihad, 3072)

Close, but not quite there yet.

Man that 9NAIS looks amazing. Comes with a 325 rated engine, giving it a 390 engine cap.

I want that in the game immediately.

[Grus]

Still waiting for a 60 tonne alternative to the maddog....

[Jay Leon Hart]

N0ni, on 21 November 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only Thunderbolts with ECM are:

• TDR-11SE (Jihad, 3069)
  
• TDR-17S (Jihad, 3070)
  
• TDR-7SE (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9NAIS (Civil War, 3067)
  
• TDR-9Nr (Jihad, 3072)

Close, but not quite there yet.

I don't think it matters when the variant was introduced, so long as the base model & all the tech is available in timeline.

The TDR-7SE lists Endo, Ferro, & DHS with 4 JJs, a Gauss, 4 MPL & ECM. Looks OK to add.

The TDR-9NAIS lists Endo & XL, RAC5, 3 ERML, SSRM6, ECM & a TC. Also looks OK to add.

The TDR-9Nr lists a Bloodhound Active Probe (as opposed to a Beagle), LPPC, 3 ERMLs, SSRM6, ECM, Large Variable Speed Pulse Laser, B-pods & a C3 Slave. Probably not getting this one.

The TDR-11SE lists a SNPPC, 3 ERMLs, ECM, a TC, MML7 & Improved JJS. Probably not getting this one, either.

The TDR-17S lists Endo & Ferro, an ERPPC, 4MPLs, 4 JJs, ECM, a Compact Engine, Heavy-Duty Gyro & Triple Strength Myomer. One more for the "not likely" pile.

So, we have 2 options for a lore firendly ECM TDR, at least.

[N0ni]

Grus, on 22 November 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

Still waiting for a 60 tonne alternative to the maddog....

Well if it's a missile spam alternative there's the Yeoman (3060). Unfortunately, there's only two variants and the 3070 Jihad era one uses MMLs which i doubt we'll ever see. Would have to fudge 4 more standard ones plus a made-up 'hero' to make it work since i'm pretty sure there were no notable pilots, correct me if i'm wrong.

[John McHobo]

While I love the Roughneck its not the best IS Heavy. It pays for its toughness with tiny weapon quirks and no boating potential whatsoever. The nice thing about it is that it can stand a clan laser alpha and not be immediately crippled. Clanners get a heat problem with the Roughneck, but thats more an issue of loadouts on clanners then the Roughneck being op.

[Cato Zilks]

There is a fundamental problem with your comparison. IS 65 ton mechs are not equal to Clan 65 ton mechs. That is a core reason why there is a tonnage disparity in faction play. IS weapons and heatsinks are heavier, bulkier, or both. If they want commensurate durability, it eats up more tonnage. In many ways the cERPPC nova or cERPPC Huntsman bring similar stats to the table as the HPPC Cat-K2. Engine cap keeps it from actually matching speed and the HPPC has notable tradeoffs with the cERPPC, but these stack up as about the same.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a95d4f89b86bec2

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3bdb566e5c4211

Edited by Cato Zilks, 22 November 2017 - 04:46 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Well, good to know people consider roughnecks as mediocrities. With that kind of public opinion it may have be somewhat safe from nerfs.

PS Also, tell that man above that its not 2014 and noone uses ppcs.

[FupDup]

Nema Nabojiv, on 22 November 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well, good to know people consider roughnecks as mediocrities. With that kind of public opinion it may have be somewhat safe from nerfs.

Vindicators and Mist Lynxes disagree.

[Jackal Noble]

John McHobo, on 22 November 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

While I love the Roughneck its not the best IS Heavy. It pays for its toughness with tiny weapon quirks and no boating potential whatsoever. The nice thing about it is that it can stand a clan laser alpha and not be immediately crippled. Clanners get a heat problem with the Roughneck, but thats more an issue of loadouts on clanners then the Roughneck being op.

Since when is a 15% ballistic Cooldown on a mech with 3 ballistic points not very good?, esp when you add some awesome armor bonuses.

[Appogee]

Rougnecks are somewhat 'over quirked' with structure at the moment. They should not be considered the baseline.

Thunderbolts in particular are great.