12 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

Two very similar mechs with similar builds. The MLX-G oddly enough has more firepower...the ACH-E has a higher top speed, but the MLX-G has better agility (especially acceleration/de-celeration). The ACH-E has better hitboxes, but im not sure if that makes a difference really given that laser vomit easily strips the arms off the ACH-E anyway.

The most important factor that i find is that the ACH-E is 5 tons heavier, has roughly the same amount of armor/structure since the MLX-G gets some durability quirks while the ACH-E gets none, and the MLX-G has much more firepower.

3x lasers and 6x MGs feels very anemic on the ACH-E personally, especially after HMLs got nerfed. 5 tons more for better hitboxes and higher speed is OK...5 tons more for LESS firepower is kind of hard to justify.

Thoughts?

(Clans really need a decent fast 30 or 35 tonner without JJs, Jenner IIC doesnt count)

Edited by Jun Watarase, 22 November 2017 - 05:57 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

MG ACH is not as good as MG MLX, it's not supposed to be good, both have different ups and downs as a chassis.

ACH with Lasers + ECM is supposed to be ACH's thing. 5 to 6 ERML and you're golden, poke as much as you like or heat allows you, backstab and ****.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 22 November 2017 - 06:02 PM.

[LordNothing]

the ach seems to get cut in half a lot, weak sts with tiny arms. i got a pair of hmls on mine and having your firepower completely halved like that is terrible. the lynx arms are relatively large and very weak so thats what people seem to aim for. the st with the dual lasers is still an effective weapon should you loose all your machine guns. but im running 4 shls, if i only used the torso hps and put hmls it would be pretty good even missing its arms. they both have their good and bad points. i think i like the cheetah more on the ecm alone, and that more than makes up with the rather minor difference in the suitability of its offensive capability and the extra machine guns.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 November 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

In my experience, the ACH is better at hit and run while the MLX is better at full engage. From the front, the MLX is just harder to kill because the small size lets it spread damage to legs more easily. The MLX also has better short- range firepower running 4xHSL and 8x MG, though even running 3xHML with 6xMG/LMG offers more raw output than the ACH thanks to the 15% MG RoF quirk on the MLX-A right arm.

What the ACH can do better, though, is run 6xHMG with 2xHML. It's a brutal 1v1 build, but I wouldn't run it in a normal drop. Not enough ammo for that.

Edit:

Also, common misconception people make: LMG are not "amazing" weapons. If you run LMG, you are going to have inferior output to standard MG. If you are running LMG on the ACH, that's why it feels anemic. They are good at critting weapons on open 'Mechs, but if you want to drill a target then use standard MG and your speed to close the gap. It's way, way better at it. You'll get more damage/ton of ammo.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 22 November 2017 - 11:34 PM.

[LordNothing]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 November 2017 - 07:56 PM, said:

In my experience, the ACH is better at hit and run while the MLX is better at full engage. From the front, the MLX is just harder to kill because the small size lets it spread damage to legs more easily. The MLX also has better short- range firepower running 4xHSL and 8x MG, though even running 3xHML with 6xMG/LMG offers more raw output than the ACH thanks to the 15% MG RoF quirk on the MLX-A right arm.

What the ACH can do better, though, is run 6xHMG with 2xHML. It's a brutal 1v1 build, but I wouldn't run it in a normal drop. Not enough ammo for that.

Edit:

Also, common misconception people make: LMG are not "amazing" weapons. If you run LMG, you are going to have inferior output to standard MG. If you are running LMG on the ACH, that's why it feels anemic. They are good at critting weapons on open 'Mechs, but if you want to drill a target then use standard MG and your speed to close the gap. It's way, way better at it. You'll get more damage/ton of ammo.

a light really doesnt need the extra range of the lmg. it can just close the distance. i prefer the standard machine gun instead on those mechs. the hmg almost never sees use, i got 20 of them in my inventory doing nothing at this point. they just dont have the ammo capacity or range to matter and are too heavy for squirrels. i think they need to fill the gap between mg and ac2 better and more emphasis on armor damage than crits. lmgs are better for slower mechs, let you project those crit rolls out abit.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 November 2017 - 04:01 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I'm not seeing how the MLX-G has more firepower than the ACH-E.

If you strip a little armour and go really low on ammo (2.5 tons), you can squeeze 26.56 damage out of 8 LMGs + 4 HSLs on the MLX-G. LMGs to MGs makes it 26.80 damage.

The ACH-E can carry more ammo (3.5 tons) with 6LMGs + 3HMLs for 30.42 damage, with longer range, ability to peek & slightly better cooling. Alternatively, slap on the Shard's RT for another 2B and swap a HML for 2 LMGs + 0.5 tons of ammo, for 20.56 damage and massively greater cooling. LMGs to MGs make them 30.60 and 20.80 damage, respectively.

Another bonus is the arms on the ACH don't grow nearly as much as those of the MLX when you add the MGs.

I'll stick to the ACH for my Clan MG Light, until the Piranha drops.

Jun Watarase, on 22 November 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

(Clans really need a decent fast 30 or 35 tonner without JJs, Jenner IIC doesnt count)

How about the Hellion?

Essentially a 5 ton heavier Mist Lynx with MASC & more spare tonnage to work with.

LordNothing, on 23 November 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

the hmg almost never sees use, i got 20 of them in my inventory doing nothing at this point. they just dont have the ammo capacity or range to matter and are too heavy for squirrels.

HMGs really need an ammo boost. I've found they require 1 ton of ammo per HMG to really be useful in a match, whereas LMGs & MGs can get by with only half a ton each. HMGs being twice as heavy and requiring twice as much ammo really hurts them.

[Y E O N N E]

Jay, look at the DPS. For 3xHML and 6x MG on the ACH-E, it's 10.32 maximum and 8.5 sustained. For 4xHSL and 8x MG on the MLX-G, it's 13.00 maximum and 10.55 sustained.

The MLX will probably win the 1v1 between the two. It absolutely will of it's an MG MLX catching an LMG Cheetoh.

I don't think it's a night and day difference and the ACH does let you make riskier moves thanks to its higher speed, but I prefer the agility and size of the MLX. ACH just feels clumsy to me.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Jay, look at the DPS. For 3xHML and 6x MG on the ACH-E, it's 10.32 maximum and 8.5 sustained. For 4xHSL and 8x MG on the MLX-G, it's 13.00 maximum and 10.55 sustained.

Sure, and 3.5 tons of ammo will feed just 6 guns a lot longer than 2.5 tons of ammo will feed 8 guns.

I agree, they both have pros cons. I prefer the ACH, mostly for being cuter, being able to poke with the torso lasers & having the option to drop 1E for ECM. Did I mention being cuter?

[panzer1b]

It really depends on playstyle, but the ACH is ALOT more versatile compared to the MLX, but the MLX, in its niche super short range environment is a far more deadly opponent if it can get the drop on someone and not get instantly focused.

Thing is, the MLX with 8 MGs and 4 HSL/ERSL gives you crazy DPS, cooling, but with no ECM capability (the mech CAN bring it, but it cant afford the tonnage nor can it afford to not have the 4B LA either) and less mobility (more agile but slower and going below 130kph in a light is actually a liability unless its a fire support build on something liek a urbie or adder/cutefox).

The ACH is more versatile since it can bring 3 HML/ERML for a respectable mid range poke, and then still carry 6 MGs which is almost as good as the MLX would get. Also it has more room for ammo and DHS, so your sustain is alot more effective (MLX has that STUPID locked BAP that benefits none of its builds since all guided weapons are too heavy to be viable on it). Also, while the ACH's arms do fall off, its nowhere even close to how easily the MLX is degunned with those boxes that are as big as half the mech and seem to eat most of the incoming fire unless u stare directly at the enemy in which case your CT gets cored out pretty fast. Its a very good mech, but the MLX is a glass cannon with a super niche role that can beat the ACH only is everything connects, and in pub games (or just bad luck), its rare for that to work while the ACH remains viable in all situations.

So yeah, both are solid lights (despite alot of people bashing the MLX), and its really a choice between absolute maximum DPS at all costs vs a bit of versatility and higher mobility.

Edited by panzer1b, 23 November 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jay Leon Hart, on 23 November 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Sure, and 3.5 tons of ammo will feed just 6 guns a lot longer than 2.5 tons of ammo will feed 8 guns.

I agree, they both have pros cons. I prefer the ACH, mostly for being cuter, being able to poke with the torso lasers & having the option to drop 1E for ECM. Did I mention being cuter?

I don't have problems with ammo using just 2.5 tons. Almost never run out, and those are regular 600-700 damage games with no strikes. And to get those 3.5 tons of ammo, you drop your sustain down to 8.2 since you have to swap out the extra heatsink I added (which, along with the speed, is the only other compelling reason to take the ACH)

Also, ACH is not at all cuter. Nope. MLX is the cutest. Totes adorbs.

[panzer1b]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

Also, ACH is not at all cuter. Nope. MLX is the cutest. Totes adorbs.

The cutefox makes both of those look "uncute"...

[Vxheous]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 November 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

I don't have problems with ammo using just 2.5 tons. Almost never run out, and those are regular 600-700 damage games with no strikes. And to get those 3.5 tons of ammo, you drop your sustain down to 8.2 since you have to swap out the extra heatsink I added (which, along with the speed, is the only other compelling reason to take the ACH)

Also, ACH is not at all cuter. Nope. MLX is the cutest. Totes adorbs.

+1 to this comment. I find my MLX kills way faster than my ACH, and by the time I'm done burning through 2.5 Tons of ammo, the game's over.

[Y E O N N E]

panzer1b, on 23 November 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

The cutefox makes both of those look "uncute"...

That ugly frog?