19 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

"Dubs is the only way..."

How many of you run SHS builds though? I know my Urbies do and so did my Hunchie until I switched to LAMS. Most recently though I've added my Crab to the SHS builds, what really caught my interest with this one though was I had to actively upgrade it to single sinks.

Anyone else out there running SHS builds?

[Magnus Santini]

I tried it on a locust because the whole thing is on the fringe of the specs of the game. Cost me C7 million and never could get enough in.

Edited by Magnus Santini, 25 November 2017 - 08:13 AM.

[panzer1b]

A while back i actually did some math with regards to teh topic, and what i concluded is that it makes absolutely no logical sense to do so outside of joke builds. Thing is, with engines of a 250 or higher rating, switching from single to double heatsinks effectively gives you 10 tons of FREE heatsinks which take up no tonnage or slots whatsoever.

Looking at some details, you are going to be bringing say at an absolute maximum ~22 DHS on a IS mech (if you include weapons with that which take up slots in the arms/STs), and in order to actually come out ahead of 22DHS (including 10 inside engine), you need a grand total of 37SHS. That comes down a 15 ton tax (which no mech outside of possibly slow assaults like an anni) can afford to really take, and its also way more then ud save from using both endo and ferro. Yes there are some extremely niche builds out there that use a very low engine rating, boat 40 or more SHS, and come out ahead of DHS builds, but you are looking at what comes down a mobile pillbox which can only be used on defending some siege maps (and even then the benefit over any other mech using DHS is almost meaningless).

On clan side its not even a matter of preference, since clans can bring 32 DHS on some laser boats, and to beat that with SHS its like 51DHS. There is not a single clan mech that can afford to just throw away 20+ tons of weapons/engine just to use a gimmicky thing that makes no sense whatsoever.

So yeah, outside of a few extremely niche builds that never ever heat up even on the hottest maps (only viable example i can think of would be pure gauss), DHS is a flat upgrade to SHS and noone should be playing mechs without DHS installed.

[Jun Watarase]

Why dont they just make engine SHS have the same heat dissipation as DHS?

[Khobai]

Quote

Why dont they just make engine SHS have the same heat dissipation as DHS?

youd have to seriously nerf external SHS then



because 10 external SHS would give you 12 capacity and 12 dissipation for only 10 tons and 10 crits plus they can fit in one slot locations.

to get the same 12 capacity and 12 dissipation from DHS would require 8 tons and 24 crits!

SHS would effectively be better than DHS at that point. they would even be better than CDHS.



If you made all internal SHS into true doubles, youd have to significantly nerf external SHS to bring them into line with DHS. They could not stay at 1.2/1.2. They might work at 2.0/2.0 internal and 0.8/0.8 external.

Edited by Khobai, 25 November 2017 - 11:23 AM.

[Scout Derek]

[suffocater]

Anni 1E with 2ll/6erml/LFE300 and 45 SHS is mighty fun and pretty cool. LFE295 would make 46 SHS possible, but that thing is slow enough.

Edited by suffocater, 25 November 2017 - 11:22 AM.

[SFC174]

WHM-6D. LFE300, 9 ERML, 34 SHS, Endo

It actually works out better than any combo of DHS and larger engine that you could run when it comes to heat management.

You could certainly argue that picking up another 6-7 kph of speed is a worthwhile tradeoff for using DHS, and you could argue that a different combo of lasers would be better, but its a fun build that puts out a nice stream of mid-range laser vomit.

[Vxheous]

Super Nova -1 with 2 HLL 6 CERML and 45 single heatsinks outpaces the double heatsink version (very slightly)

Single heatsink Build (45 singles): 5.4 heat dissipation/second and 84 heatcap


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c2a64295725af2



vs

Double heatsink Build (30 doubles): 5.0 heat dissipation/second and 75 heatcap

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...72e2098cc6309a0

Edited by Vxheous, 25 November 2017 - 12:40 PM.

[Spheroid]

Anything built around AC-2 I would argue is cool enough currently to delay the upgrade. Rifleman, Blackjack, Panther-10P, etc. Sub-250 engines obviously.

Gives you flexibility on your ferro options.

Edited by Spheroid, 25 November 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Sam Ael, on 25 November 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

No armor RL? Have fun with that.

No front armour either...

[Y E O N N E]

32 SHS ERLL BNC-3S vs. 21 DHS ERLL BNC-3M
That said, a 22 DHS STK-5S comes to within 0.04 points of dissipation. The NSR-9J can do that, too.

[Vxheous]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

32 SHS ERLL BNC-3S vs. 21 DHS ERLL BNC-3M
That said, a 22 DHS STK-5S comes to within 0.04 points of dissipation. The NSR-9J can do that, too.

I think the math works out that you pretty much have to have 10+ more singles over doubles for singles to be better in every way. This pretty much makes singles niche on mechs that have a lot of free tonnage and free slots available to stack max singles (see assaults)

[Y E O N N E]

Vxheous, on 25 November 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think the math works out that you pretty much have to have 10+ more singles over doubles for singles to be better in every way. This pretty much makes singles niche on mechs that have a lot of free tonnage and free slots available to stack max singles (see assaults)

Yeah, which also makes it indirectly exclusive to energy boats.

You also typically have to give up value-adds like Targeting Computers and Jump Jets in order to realize those heat efficiency gains; a 31 SHS BLR-1G will out-cool the 20 DHS version, but it loses 5 kph and it loses 27/54 meters in reach. And I can get that performance out of the 22 DHS STK-5S without giving up the TC at least, so I should just use that.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 25 November 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[FupDup]

Jun Watarase, on 25 November 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why dont they just make engine SHS have the same heat dissipation as DHS?

Because that would remove an arbitrary money sink tax and replace it with a meaningful choice.

[Brain Cancer]

Jun Watarase, on 25 November 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why dont they just make engine SHS have the same heat dissipation as DHS?

Because SHS are literally a relic of an earlier part of the game and rapidly become extinct in virtually all modern units post 3050s. It's like saying "why can't we use internal combustion engines instead of fusion ones and balance them as a meaningful choice"? In TT, DHS were added and made deliberately better to insure heat was less of a probem, thereby speeding the game up by decreasing TTK.

[Bogus]

I use SHS on my urbies since the bottleneck is getting 10 total heat sinks, and the crit slots are better spent on something that actually reduces mass like FF armor.

Also That One Stalker that has like 20 of them to facilitate ERLL spam.

[Y E O N N E]

Bogus, on 26 November 2017 - 12:54 AM, said:

Also That One Stalker that has like 20 of them to facilitate ERLL spam.

That one Stalker uses DHS, not SHS.

[The6thMessenger]

Gauss Urbie, because i can. I win the moment I step in the battlefield.

[suffocater]

That Supernova build works on a KDK-1 too with 2hll/6erml/XL 355 and 45shs.