29 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Xiphias, on 27 November 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

He's used to running the Mist Lynx though and it also has paper arms. If you're taking a lot of fire in the Viper you're doing it wrong anyway.

You have to have more situational awareness in a Viper, but you can absolutely destroy the current IS scouting meta (slow, brawling mediums) with it.

Eh. I'd go Ice Ferret if you intend to play keepaway, because ERSLas boating still brings you into SRM range. At least if you intend to do any real damage. Might as well go Ice Ferret, ECM, and 4x MPLas.

Edit: However, I wouldn't pursue that build in a pub drop, because it only really works best if your entire team is playing keepaway and poke. Otherwise you put your brawlers at a numerical disadvantage.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 November 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Xiphias]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 November 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Eh. I'd go Ice Ferret if you intend to play keepaway, because ERSLas boating still brings you into SRM range. At least if you intend to do any real damage. Might as well go Ice Ferret, ECM, and 4x MPLas.

Edit: However, I wouldn't pursue that build in a pub drop, because it only really works best if your entire team is playing keepaway and poke. Otherwise you put your brawlers at a numerical disadvantage.

I run CERML. I never have to end up in (S)SRM range. In solo I'll get into the brawl with my team, but I go in with the mindset that I'm going to have to carry every match 1v4.

While the Ice Ferret can fill a similar role I find the JJs important for getting good angles and avoiding getting caught by surprise/stuck. The MGs are also a nice addition and allow me to contribute more to the brawl once things get opened or if I get back shots.

[Angel of Annihilation]

In my experience the Viper is a good choice at least based on what you say your looking for. It is medium mech that really, really wants to be a light mech with light mech top speeds and amazing jump capability. I run a Medusa with 10 ER SLs which is near the same firepower as a Nova typically runs. The build requires some very good heat management skills and ability to cycle in smaller groups of lasers rather than relying on an Alpha Strike so it isn't for everyone but I have had good success with it in Scouting. Also you don't have to build it crazy like and in fact it might be better to go with maybe 5 ER SLs to avoid any ghost heat and 4 LMGs or some such but that just shows you have options and that wouldn't require you buy a hero to do it.

[arcana75]

Xiphias, on 27 November 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I run CERML. I never have to end up in (S)SRM range. In solo I'll get into the brawl with my team, but I go in with the mindset that I'm going to have to carry every match 1v4.

While the Ice Ferret can fill a similar role I find the JJs important for getting good angles and avoiding getting caught by surprise/stuck. The MGs are also a nice addition and allow me to contribute more to the brawl once things get opened or if I get back shots.

Not so much carry as picking up the pieces left behind when you let your team 3v4 while you stay at 2nd line. It's not because you chose to hide, but rather your pug team chose (S)SRMs and will have to go close, and the opposing team did the same thing so your 3 teammates are doing most of the tanking by definition, and they will fall to 4 IS mediums doing the exact same thing of (S)SRMs and having to go close.

I have vids of such exact outcomes, and when 1 team mate has such a loadout, the outcome is always the same: the laser guy is the sole survivor of 7 (S)SRM mechs and 1 laser mech.

It's definitely playing for yourself. Whether it's selfish or not, is an individual opinion.

[Xiphias]

arcana75, on 27 November 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Not so much carry as picking up the pieces left behind when you let your team 3v4 while you stay at 2nd line. It's not because you chose to hide, but rather your pug team chose (S)SRMs and will have to go close, and the opposing team did the same thing so your 3 teammates are doing most of the tanking by definition, and they will fall to 4 IS mediums doing the exact same thing of (S)SRMs and having to go close.

If I'm playing solo I'm doing the best thing in my power to win. Running a fast laser mech is the best way to win in the current meta. I've solo killed the entire enemy team multiple times. If I'd have been in a SRM brawler mech I absolutely would have lost those matches alone with my team. Take a match like this. Do you think that I could have won that match by brawling with my team? I take mechs to scouting that I have fun playing and I play them to the best of my ability to win.

If I have a competent team I'm happy to run other things. In solo queue I can't rely on my team to not be potatoes. The truth is my teammates usually aren't worth saving and by sacrificing them I can increase my team's chances of winning. I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice another player in scouting if it means winning the match. To be clear, I don't sit in the back the entire time. If my team is engaging I push in with them and try to distract and do damage. If my team is clearly losing I'm not going to stay and die though.

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I have vids of such exact outcomes, and when 1 team mate has such a loadout, the outcome is always the same: the laser guy is the sole survivor of 7 (S)SRM mechs and 1 laser mech.

It's definitely playing for yourself. Whether it's selfish or not, is an individual opinion.

And that guy manages to win the match and kill mechs. Isn't that the goal?

Sure it's selfish, but no more so than a player taking LRMs into scouting or a player boating streaks to farm damage for an event. I win the vast majority of my solo scouting matches by using an effective play-style. Other players are welcome to adopt it too, but it's not my job to babysit players for the decisions that they made. If I'm winning matches I'm doing my duty to the team.

If my team chooses to run straight at the enemy instead of giving me time to weaken them at range is it my fault that they rushed blindly in? There are 15 (10?) minutes in a match, there is no need to attack immediately. A good team would keep distance and stay away until enough damage had been done to lead to a win. Most pugs just mash the W key and try to fire streaks to victory.

[arcana75]

Xiphias, on 27 November 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

If I'm playing solo I'm doing the best thing in my power to win. Running a fast laser mech is the best way to win in the current meta. I've solo killed the entire enemy team multiple times. If I'd have been in a SRM brawler mech I absolutely would have lost those matches alone with my team. Take a match like this. Do you think that I could have won that match by brawling with my team? I take mechs to scouting that I have fun playing and I play them to the best of my ability to win.

If I have a competent team I'm happy to run other things. In solo queue I can't rely on my team to not be potatoes. The truth is my teammates usually aren't worth saving and by sacrificing them I can increase my team's chances of winning. I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice another player in scouting if it means winning the match. To be clear, I don't sit in the back the entire time. If my team is engaging I push in with them and try to distract and do damage. If my team is clearly losing I'm not going to stay and die though.


And that guy manages to win the match and kill mechs. Isn't that the goal?

Sure it's selfish, but no more so than a player taking LRMs into scouting or a player boating streaks to farm damage for an event. I win the vast majority of my solo scouting matches by using an effective play-style. Other players are welcome to adopt it too, but it's not my job to babysit players for the decisions that they made. If I'm winning matches I'm doing my duty to the team.

If my team chooses to run straight at the enemy instead of giving me time to weaken them at range is it my fault that they rushed blindly in? There are 15 (10?) minutes in a match, there is no need to attack immediately. A good team would keep distance and stay away until enough damage had been done to lead to a win. Most pugs just mash the W key and try to fire streaks to victory.

Nah it's cool, you're entirely justified with your own choice of mech and playstyle going into a pug game. I'm just saying that when events come around that focus on match score for that shiny free mech, most will boat the meta loadouts that most easily reach the goal of the shiny free mech, and in most cases they are doing so regardless of the team, and solely for themselves too. In the case of match score meta, whether you win or lose, die or survive, as long as you get 500 damage and little to no team damage, you will get 250 match score. So those (like me) boating (S)SRMs are doing the same thing as you just slightly different (ie playing for themselves). For emphasis, since the goal is 250MS via damage, there is no carry. Putting a team into a 3v4 situation, reduces the likelihood your 3 teammates will survive long enough to get enough damage to earn 250MS.

Due to the meta compelled upon by the event conditions, the end result is most matches are 7 (S)SRM mechs and the uncommon 1 mech with lasers. Once in a while you get weird stuff like 3x Hunchback IICs boating LBX20s in a group. The outcome isn't a carry situation cuz your dead teammates don't really care if you help pull off a win or not. It's really a picking up the pieces. The rage comes when your 3 dead teammates died fast due to a 4v3 situation, don't get their 250 MS, and you kill 4 and get the coveted 250MS.

Case in point: https://youtu.be/1iI59bQy5dw?t=9m40s (fast forward to 9m 40s if the link doesn't work). Full disclosure it's my vid. I did get what I needed out of the match though but the match outcome exemplifies several similar outcomes I had with a teammate with laser loadout.

[Xiphias]

arcana75, on 27 November 2017 - 08:48 PM, said:

Nah it's cool, you're entirely justified with your own choice of mech and playstyle going into a pug game. I'm just saying that when events come around that focus on match score for that shiny free mech, most will boat the meta loadouts that most easily reach the goal of the shiny free mech, and in most cases they are doing so regardless of the team, and solely for themselves too. In the case of match score meta, whether you win or lose, die or survive, as long as you get 500 damage and little to no team damage, you will get 250 match score. So those (like me) boating (S)SRMs are doing the same thing as you just slightly different (ie playing for themselves).

Yeah, and I have no sympathy for players simply taking load-outs trying to farm the events. They are often decreasing the team's chances of winning simply to score good damage to get their score. That's their choice, but if I'm going to both play to win the match and get my score they can't really complain that I didn't do my part. It's not my job to help people get their match score any more than players like you choosing to boat streaks are trying to help me get mine. My strat just happens to be more effective if you're able to pull it off.

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For emphasis, since the goal is 250MS via damage, there is no carry. Putting a team into a 3v4 situation, reduces the likelihood your 3 teammates will survive long enough to get enough damage to earn 250MS.

I play the same way regardless of whether an event is going on. Carry is winning the match at all costs. Players can choose to play just for event bonuses, but they are often reducing the team's chances of winning simply to get that event match. That's selfish behavior and I'm not going to sacrifice my mech for it.

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Due to the meta compelled upon by the event conditions, the end result is most matches are 7 (S)SRM mechs and the uncommon 1 mech with lasers. Once in a while you get weird stuff like 3x Hunchback IICs boating LBX20s in a group. The outcome isn't a carry situation cuz your dead teammates don't really care if you help pull off a win or not. It's really a picking up the pieces. The rage comes when your 3 dead teammates died fast due to a 4v3 situation, don't get their 250 MS, and you kill 4 and get the coveted 250MS.

And if my teammates don't care about the win why should I care if they get their match score? Let them rage, I'm not going to play sub optimally just because they decided to try and farm an event.

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Case in point: https://youtu.be/1iI59bQy5dw?t=9m40s (fast forward to 9m 40s if the link doesn't work). Full disclosure it's my vid. I did get what I needed out of the match though but the match outcome exemplifies several similar outcomes I had with a teammate with laser loadout.

He told the team what he was doing and you all chose to ignore him. It's not his fault that you made bad decisions.

Further, you literally sat behind a rock and farmed damage with your streaks. You weren't engaging and armor sharing anymore than he was. You seemed content to let your teammates die while you got your damage. Then when they killed your team 2v4 and turned on you you decided you wanted to complain.

Let me also say this, I hate SSRMs. They are the bottom of the barrel lowest skill weapon in the game and they are primarily good for farming inefficient damage numbers and for players who aren't good enough to kill lights. Any decent player is going to contribute far more useful damage with direct fire weapons such as lasers or SRMs. Taking streaks into scouting just to farm matches for the event is probably one of the most selfish things a player can do. They don't care if they win or lose. They don't care if they help their team or not. All they care about is farming their match score.

A large part of why I take range in scouting is so that I don't have to deal with SSRMs and so that I can punish the players that do choose to take them. I have no remorse about kiting a player who has streaks and I have no remorse if my teammate who decided to take the easy way out dies because they chose to take streaks.

It's not really my fault if trying to take the easy way out backfires on players. Maybe they will learn something from it, maybe they won't. I think if everyone took Vipers and Cicadas scouting would be a lot more fun than the current streak boating bore.

[Alkabides]

I'm really, really having fun with my Huntsman lately. The recent event gave me some good time to spend with the chasis and because the 250 point requirement, allowed me to try a bunch of different builds with it for max fun. You can't go wrong with this guy in scouting. I also highly recommend the Viper. It's fast, can mount a good amount of weapons and can get the hell out of dodge once you've really pissed off the enemy. Finally, the nova for me is also a fun little mech. Who would have though laser vomit would look so good with machine guns???

The origins pack on sale right now is a hell of a deal gives you the hunchback IIc cbill variant plus the cbill variant of the Jenner IIc. Hunchback excellent scouting mech, Jenner can be deadly with streaks if they manage to sneak up on you. Both will give you a fun although different experience in scouting.

[mistlynx4life]

I did grab a Nova and it's alright but I also bought a Viper this morning and after playing only one match, I think that's going to be my Scouting Baby. Thanks everyone!

[Alkabides]

Great choice, love my viper.