54 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

So i won the Atlas D-DC in the last event. Tried lots of different loadouts, MRMs,SRMs,UACs, ACs, STD Engine, LF Engine...the results where all the same.

Its a sitting duck with an inbuild bullet magnet! You need luck to brake the mandatory 500 damage mark for an assault. I knew that assaults are in a bad spot right now but so bad?

1. You can`t torso twist effectively and spread the damage! I have no clue why humanoid mechs, which are generally taller but have a better pivot point, can`t torso twist faster then a MAD IIc e.g.. So there is no defence against the high pinpoint damage meta. It only needs 2 clan heavys and your sidetorso is theoretically gone in 1.5 seconds. It usually takes up to 4 seconds in real gameplay but in that time you only get 1 or maybe 2 non pinpoint alphas out.

2. Useless Structure Quirks! In this hypercrit meta I usualy go down as a stick long after I lost all my weapons. Even if i only face 2 mediums with team support i lose nearly all my weapons in that engagement and walk around next to useless for the rest of the match. Structure is useless for assaults and any mech atm. Even if i don`t consider exeptional mechs like my roughneck or bushwacker my heavys and mediums with their tighter hitboxes and good mobility have a better survivability then this Atlas!

3. Waaaaay to slow with this mobility! You can`t poke at all, brawl effectively or get from cover to cover fast enough before you get focused. You have a hard time to keep up with your teams movement and even struggle to get to the fight before it is over or somewhere else. If you ever get to the fight you have no chance to get out or retreat. If you found more then one enemy around a corner its a death or get used to be a happy stick sentence.


4. Low weapon hardpoints! Not the worst feature but it hinders your performance compared to the Kodiac. If your survivability would be better then it would be ok but you go down or get shot to uselessness as fast as any Kodiac.

Over all i have the feeling that this mech only benefits the damage farming of the enemy team!

Am I doing it wrong or is the mighty Atlas only a sitting duck right now?

[adamts01]

Engine de-sync was the final nail in its coffin. It was always slow, pinpoint alphas tear it apart without its ability to twist, it has low mounts, its alphas are not only spread but they're extremely short ranged and low on damage..... It's symbolises everything wrong with assaults in this game all in one mech. The game was better at release, when the Atlas was terrifying and lights were lights.

[N0ni]

Atlas was already overshadowed by powercreep and then took a big hit from engine desync. So it comes at no surprise that the once amazing Blue Eyes White Dragon is now a Red Eyes Trash Dragon.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeah, Atlases are terrible. In general many asssaults are, especially 100 ton ones.

All of the 100 ton mechs are absolute bullet magnets, everyone focuses them because they're the biggest targest on the battlefield and also the slowest, so they're just easy to hit walking damage pinatas. With the Atlas you have that issue while also being a short range brawler. It used to be decent at brawling, but then we had the mobility nerf that killed it and then the engine desync that nailed its coffin shut. Now it is barely capable of even using its arms to shield when it used to be able to lose the arms entirely before losing a torso segment commonly.

There's really no helping it in this meta unless PGI reverts things back to the days when we had like x20 the current mobility ratings.

[Steve Pryde]

Engine desync was the biggest fault from PGI.

[Garran Tana]

I have noting against engine desync itself but the values set for the assaults after the desync are horrid. I feel like +30 armor points on every torso location would make assaults decently durable with current mobility, but this mobility is just not fun to play to begin with.

Edited by Garran Tana, 05 December 2017 - 03:54 AM.

[oldradagast]

Structural quirks need to die in a raging garbage fire.

They contribute next to nothing to the game when compared to armor quirks since you start losing weapons very soon after the armor is breached in most cases. Being able to stumble around the field as a stripped XP pinata because "yeah, structural quirks!" is not a viable role for a mech to fill.

Of course, PGI will PGI as they SLOWLY convert most structural quirks to armor quirks at the rate of a few mechs a month... maybe... It's a joke; it could be done in a week, assuming it's just an XML file. And armor quirks are the only type of thing that will really help the Atlas or any huge, slow, brawler. Fixing its lousy mobility would help, too, but that is probably less likely to happen, and the rest of its problems are base on low hardpoints and inability to boat weapons, which is not going to change.

[TheArisen]

I can do well personally but I do agree it's more difficult to do so in the Atlas. This is more powercreep than anything else.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I feel like alphas have gotten out of hand. Damage has outpaced durability and frankly damage output needs to go down.

[Tlords]

All 100 ton mechs have several issues.

1. They are the largest mechs on the battlefield and with a few exceptions (Kodiak and Boars Head), the slowest.
2. Being big and slow = easy to hit
3. Their armor does not count for their large hit boxes and slow speed - especially with 60-90 point laser vomit being standard in the meta.

If I were king for a day, I'd normalize the survival tree to give all mechs the same bonuses.

I'm sure someone will disagree and come up with a reason why a light mech should can carry a higher. Here is the math...

A locust maxed out on the survival tree for armor and structure gets ~64 more hit points spread across body. An atlas gets ~133. The atlas - A mech that weighs 80 tons more than the locust - barely gets 2xs the amount of additional hit points for investing fully in the skill tree. Because of this, the survival tree should benefit all mechs the same. Same percentages for all.

Edited by Tlords, 05 December 2017 - 04:37 AM.

[Athom83]

LFE 350+, ECM, UAC/20, and MRMs, boom, decent Atlas DDC build. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19254ae5fd6f9c1

Or go full out DPS machine with 2 RAC/5s as you might as well be firing because you can't turn away. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f5c01d33776957

However, I may be biased because I run an A7S-D with all of its hefty armor quirks.

[Humpday]

That thing has been dead for a while. Only in the hands of someone like bear_cl4w does that thing do any work. Other than that it only serves as a distraction....

Now, 3 Atlas's on one team...thats bad. Those things soak up so much damage and take forever to kill, and get focused down, that the team supporting the atlas's mows over the other team because they're so preoccupied shooting at the atlas's.

1 Atlas though, in the hands of a regular pug...nah...things is good for like 200 damage before its dead, and thats being generous.

People are putting LRMs on the poor thing...such a shame for such a bad arse looking mech.

I'd like to see it make some sort or resurgence. I'm pretty sure any current Clan Assault class mech can drop it pretty easy.

TheArisen, on 05 December 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

I can do well personally but I do agree it's more difficult to do so in the Atlas. This is more powercreep than anything else.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I feel like alphas have gotten out of hand. Damage has outpaced durability and frankly damage output needs to go down.

I can erase an Atlas in 3 Alphas from my MKII. And thats before he even gets anywhere near me to engage lol

Edited by Humpday, 05 December 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[Mole]

I still do alright in my Atlas but I will agree that it is a shadow of its former self. All the 100 ton assault 'mechs are, really. They need some help.

Edited by Mole, 05 December 2017 - 09:23 AM.

[Khobai]

1) most 90+ assaults need more torso armor quirks because they cant torso twist to distribute damage. armor quirks of course being preferable to structure quirks.

2) mobility tree needs to be worth more for assaults so at least the more agile 80-85 ton assaults can benefit from it (and certain outliers like the executioner). but I mean most 90+ assaults arnt ever really going to benefit from mobility tree.

3) 90+ assault jumpjets need to be unnerfed. because theyre 2 friggin tons each and they suck big time. even if you have to make it so the reticle shakes until they touch the ground, I dont care, but unnerf the damn assault jumpjets. they are seriously useless.

4) bigger engines should give better acceleration (but not better torso twist or turning speed). im fine with torso/turning agility being desynced from engines size but bigger engines should still accelerate better than smaller engines. A lot of assaults cant even move out of artillery strikes in time due to their poor acceleration.

5) high damage alpha combos like those from laser vomit and gauss/laser need to be capped with ghost heat mechanics

Quote

Structural quirks need to die in a raging garbage fire.

They contribute next to nothing to the game when compared to armor quirks since you start losing weapons very soon after the armor is breached in most cases. Being able to stumble around the field as a stripped XP pinata because "yeah, structural quirks!" is not a viable role for a mech to fill.

thats not entirely true

structure quirks make you harder to kill from behind

so structure quirks are still useful for mechs that have to use XL engines for example

but for assaults, armor quirks are pretty much always better

Edited by Khobai, 05 December 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Khobai, on 05 December 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

3) bigger engines should give better acceleration (but not better torso twist or turning speed).

Do the opposite and have bigger engines give better torso twist and turn speed but no accel and decel boost. This way you help out brawlers who bring large engines so they can spread damage better but you don't help pokers who need to peek in and out of cover quickly.

Alternatively just undo engine desync entirely so things make sense again and throw the quirks back onto mechs that need help past the baseline.

Edited by Dakota1000, 05 December 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Humpday]

PS I hope it gets something, I mean, its Battletech...its iconic. Yet I can't bring myself to pick one up due to the level of suck and unforgivingness of it.

[Humpday]

Khobai, on 05 December 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

5) high damage alpha combos like those from laser vomit and gauss/laser need to be capped with ghost heat mechanics

2 HLs, 2erMLs, 2 Guass = 80pt alpha on my MKII-1, more than my Deathstrike...I mean a LOT less efficient, but still 80 point, pin point alpha. Well, pinpoint for me at least, I dont' spray my lasers all over the place. I mean anything that walks into that thing is at the very least losing a torso, one shot.

Its crazy that you only have to fire 6-8 times the entire match to rack up 700-1k damage.

[Khobai]

Quote

Do the opposite and have bigger engines give better torso twist and turn speed but no accel and decel boost. This way you help out brawlers who bring large engines so they can spread damage better but you don't help pokers who need to peek in and out of cover quickly.

but assaults arnt supposed to be agile, that was the whole point of desyncing agility from engine size. because kodiaks were taking 400 engines and moving like ballerinas. it was stupid. Im glad thats gone.

a brawler atlas/kodiak should NOT be agile. Its good for balance that lights/mediums can run circles around assaults, it means assaults need to have other mechs escort them. especially with mechs like the assassin out there that can tear apart isolated assaults.

but an atlas should have massive armor/structure quirks and its torso should be a lot harder to destroy then it currently is. +31/+21 quirks are crap, that doesnt even let it survive half of an extra alpha strike. It needs more. And also there needs to be some changes to ghost heat to stop the 60+ damage laser vomit alphas.

the issue with acceleration, and why bigger engines should give better acceleration, is because a lot of assaults currently lack the acceleration to get out of an artillery strike in time. that is unfair. the acceleration needs to be increased.

Quote

2 HLs, 2erMLs, 2 Guass = 80pt alpha on my MKII-1, more than my Deathstrike...I mean a LOT less efficient, but still 80 point, pin point alpha. Well, pinpoint for me at least, I dont' spray my lasers all over the place. I mean anything that walks into that thing is at the very least losing a torso, one shot.

yes and large lasers, medium lasers, ppcs, and gauss should probably all be linked for ghost heat to prevent that

I mean the game was already moving towards energy draw anyway which was basically ghost heat with all weapons in the same ghost heat group.

PGI needs to bring back energy draw and just give us energy draw 3.0

yeah ghost heat is stupid, but its literally all the game has and its what were stuck with, and energy draw is the next logical evolution of ghost heat. energy draw wouldve closed all the ghost heat loopholes once and for all.

Edited by Khobai, 05 December 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[JediPanther]

The best thing you can do with an atlas is strip it for parts and save it for later. Atlas are expensive so might as well keep it unless you really need to free up a mech bay. I managed to win that highlander clan version from a loot box. Tried it found it suck and striped it. I keep it just as a trophy mech.

Not much you can do with the current game meta to make an atlas good. Biggest lfe and the weapons of a poor 40 tonnes is best most can do with it now.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

1 - Engine desync has broadly speaking been great. The design goal was a worthy one and it was met, though there have been a few casualties of it.

2 - The Atlas is still a beast. Personally I'm running my Annihilators and King Crabs at the moment because I enjoy the builds a little bit more (and because I've played all my Atlases into the ground), but I have no hesitation in saying that an Atlas is still a scary mech - when the pilot doesn't build it horribly and actually knows how to drive the thing.

3 - Taking all the +armor nodes, taking enough mobility nodes to get some decent anchor turn and twist speed bonuses, and focusing your firepower nodes on whatever your primary weapon system(s) will be should get you enough benefit to be able to twist tank like a boss while still having the free SP to get Radar Deprivation and Seismic, both of which radically increase your lifespan.

4 - The D-DC having ECM makes it an especially strong variant among a generally strong set. If you want MRM spam you can try something like this, with armor tweaked to taste. For a more brawler-oriented build with heavy point-blank damage output, try something like this, again tweaking armor to taste.

If you can't learn how to spread damage in an Atlas during regular games, try finding a friend and doing Steiner Colosseum a bit, running drills with things like shooting at a target (there are handy ones painted on some of the obstacles) and immediately turning away, or having your partner shoot just past you repeatedly so that you can practice judging when to turn back, shoot him, and then turn away again. It's amazing how much even ten minutes of drills can do to improve your game.

[Humpday]

I've seen an MRM ac20 build do work, and I know for sure its a functional combo since I run MRM40 ac20 on my Loyalty Victor. But the Victor is highly mobile(comparatively). Atlas is like trying to move around with tar under your feet.