28 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

Jun Watarase, on 03 December 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

Now look at competitive matches or unit vs unit matches in FP and almost every mech in the first 3 waves will be laser vomit, and they will all be the same mechs (BLR/WHM/GRH, EBJ/HBR/MAD-IIC).

This is just outright false. In comp you see a lot of dakka, mpls, erppcs, erlls, sometimes ATMs, LRMs, or SSRMs, and on occasion you'll see a laservomit mech. There are very few laservom mechs in comp nowadays.

[Bud Crue]

Gagis, on 15 November 2020 - 01:48 PM, said:

MWO currently has the best weapon and tech base balance it has had in most of its history.

Only burr being that clan pulse lasers are a bit below the curve right now, but that's a relatively small concern when it comes to balance.

I don’t think I can express this properly other than to say I think I disagree.

On a tonnage basis do we really think a small pulse laser is as good as a medium laser? How about the Clan equivalents? I mostly see ML and C-ERML being used as secondary weapons, with SPL only rarely. Same thing with ATMs vs LRMs. I may have seen someone run 3 LRM20s on a Veagle-3 (maybe?) but for everyone one of those, I’d bet real money that I have seen 3 ATM 9s or even ATM12s, quit literally 100’s of times. I think there is a reason for that. Same thing with IS-MPL. They are just better (on A LOT of mechs) than any other laser configuration. So too MRMs vs SRMs. How often do you see an IV-4 running SRMs and a mix of others rather than the more ubiquitous 2 MRM-30 or 40 builds? Yes, there are a few select mechs where the SRM is a superior choice, but maybe that’s where I am going with this....that weapon balance is as much a function of the mech the weapons are run on, as to the weapons themselves.

Like I said, I may not be expressing this well, but weapon balance does not seem balanced to me, but my garage full of mechs that never get played because there are just better options makes me think I am confusing mech balance with weapon balance, but I honestly don’t understand how one is even relevant without the other.

[D A T A]

Jun Watarase, on 03 December 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

Now look at competitive matches or unit vs unit matches in FP and almost every mech in the first 3 waves will be laser vomit, and they will all be the same mechs (BLR/WHM/GRH, EBJ/HBR/MAD-IIC).

After that, look at some real competitive matches, not at the ones of pugs pretending to be comp, and you will see its only CERPPC ISmpl and dakka with not a single laser vomit or gauss since 2017.
Plain and simple FACT.
The problem is that this game is made to appear balanced to the mid tier pug.
But in fact it's not.
The problem is that pugs can't see the flaws of the system because it is built on purpose to look balanced to them.
The result? When they are facing real players equipped with real weapons, common people get *** blasted whithout even knowing why and they rage quit, because the meta is invisible to them.
The evidence of this is a tier 3 perfect mr nobody calling lasers op while in fact laser vomits are EXTINCT since 2017 from every real comp team

Edited by D A T A, 16 November 2020 - 05:54 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Willard Phule, on 15 November 2020 - 06:31 AM, said:

I'd much rather see MW3 get updated to a modern graphics engine. It played WAY better than MW:O.

Modders might do it for MW5. PGI released the entire project and passed it off as "Toolkit", IIRC.

[Bud Crue]

D A T A, on 16 November 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

After that, look at some real competitive matches, not at the ones of pugs pretending to be comp, and you will see its only CERPPC ISmpl and dakka with not a single laser vomit or gauss since 2017.
Plain and simple FACT.
The problem is that this game is made to appear balanced to the mid tier pug.
But in fact it's not.
The problem is that pugs can't see the flaws of the system because it is built on purpose to look balanced to them.
The result? When they are facing real players equipped with real weapons, common people get *** blasted whithout even knowing why and they rage quit, because the meta is invisible to them.
The evidence of this is a tier 3 perfect mr nobody calling lasers op while in fact laser vomits are EXTINCT since 2017 from every real comp team

To be fair, with the state of the game being what it is, I don't think most players pay as much attention to the comp scene as much as they might have in say, 2017 or 2018. Frankly after the "beer league, stock mode" WCs even I, a once avid MRBC and Comp observer stopped paying attention.

But even ignoring the realities of Comp play, you would have to be having some exceptional games in the soup queue to not have noticed the prevalence of C-ERPPC (how many matches these days end not with the lone Piranha or stealth mech but a 2ERPPC Shadow Cat or 3ERPPC Veagle off in the distance trying to play sniper/savior, or a 2ERPPC/2UAC10 MKII raising hell, or even Warhawks nearly taking one's head off from across the map of late), the ubiquity of dakka (do others not have the seeming 2-4 MKII-Bs in EVERY match like I do?), or the fact that most IS laser builds are running MPLs and little else (as a mediocre at best player, I prefer a Jester because the match score padding with dual AMS is nice, but Vulcans,Top Dogs, Crabs, Wolf Hounds, and many others are common and they are all running MPLs and little else).

[Aidan Crenshaw]

If you want to discuss weapon balance, can we please not include statements from when the thread was really introduced? In 2017?

[Brauer]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 16 November 2020 - 10:26 PM, said:

If you want to discuss weapon balance, can we please not include statements from when the thread was really introduced? In 2017?

lol, I had not seen the date on that. That was sloppy of me. This is also a good argument for not necroing some ancient thread and instead starting fresh.

[Corbon Zackery]

Were going to be adding a few more weapons to the game to keep it fresh.
These weapons will be dangerous and very experimental. To keep the game balanced these new weapons might take up extra hard point slots.
IS: X-pulse lasers, Grenade Launcher, Heavy Flamer, LAC 2, LAC 5, Thunderbolt Launchers,

Clans: ER Pulse Lasers, Grenade Launcher, I know your screaming "Well what about Streak LRM!" Both sides pretty much have streak LRM's Already. Short end of the stick for the clans.

With the resizing of IS mechs. This should see a increase on Inner Sphere play.
Getting rid of Map voting insult to the map design team.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Corbon Zackery, on 17 November 2020 - 09:02 AM, said:

Were going to be adding a few more weapons to the game to keep it fresh.
These weapons will be dangerous and very experimental. To keep the game balanced these new weapons might take up extra hard point slots.
IS: X-pulse lasers, Grenade Launcher, Heavy Flamer, LAC 2, LAC 5, Thunderbolt Launchers,

Clans: ER Pulse Lasers, Grenade Launcher, I know your screaming "Well what about Streak LRM!" Both sides pretty much have streak LRM's Already. Short end of the stick for the clans.

With the resizing of IS mechs. This should see a increase on Inner Sphere play.
Getting rid of Map voting insult to the map design team.

IS need some energy love

Edited by SirSmokes, 17 November 2020 - 09:25 AM.