13 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

Since MG's became really for real weapons in MWO (a fact which I'm very happy about, btw), structure has become styrofoam. Once your armor is off a component, you're likely going to lose that component in mere seconds.

So why then do we keep getting mechs with extra structure? And not even enough extra structure to add a full second of life to a component?

The structure quirks instead of armor quirks on the Thanatos made the mech DOA. It's by far the fastest I've seen a mech leave regular play after release. The Hellspawn at least has some armor quirks, but not over the RT which is already the single most targeted spot on a mech when it comes time for damage farming. The once mighty Atlas is just a pinata.

When you look through the mechs that get played vs those that sit in hangars,you don't find structure quirk mechs. It's either armor or hardpoints. That's all anyone looks for because that's all that has value in the current game.

So, pretty please swap out all the structure quirks for armor quirks just like you did on a few mechs last patch. I'll be able to play my Thannies again. I'll maybe bother trying to find a working build for my Atlases (well...maybe not...still so many other things wrong with them).

p.s. ECM is not armor. ECM doesn't really do much of anything vs the majority of mechs in MWO which use direct fire driven by pilots who couldn't find the R key on their computer if you plastered it to their eyeball anyway.

p.p.s. I'm serious about the R key/ECM thing. I've begged teammates while spectating them to hit R so they can see where to shoot an enemy and they just keep spraying lasers all over the place with not a care in the world that the mech in front of them might have both legs open, or a cherry red ST, or any of that good stuff to shoot at.

[TheArisen]

Well I do agree PGI needs to stop acting like ECM is such a big deal anymore and buff struggling mechs like the Thanatos. However what needs to be addressed is the crazy high alphas. Burn time and cooldown are not enough to reign them in. Basically lets try reducing the damage output of mechs asap.

[Muujig612]

Xavori, on 05 December 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

The once mighty Atlas is just a pinata.

Try the D. It has armor quirks.

[Gristle Missile]

I agree - with the current MG meta, armor is better

[Xavori]

Gristle Missile, on 05 December 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

I agree - with the current MG meta, armor is better

And again, I really like MG's being useful. But it does mean that the existing structure mechs need to be redone to accept that.

[Andi Nagasia]

personally i would like to see All Structure Quirks converted into Armor Quirks, them see Structure Doubled,
(so a mech with no Armor/Structure Quirks would have the same amount of Armor/Structure Heath)

[Xetelian]

Double armor again. The damage potential is a LOT higher than it used to be when we first doubled armor.

Double structure as well.

AND change all quirks to armor on top of it and leave them in place.

[MechaBattler]

I'd be okay with that. As long as the current ones with armor get an additional bonus. A lot of those need them for a reason.

[sceii]

Xetelian, on 05 December 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

Double armor again. The damage potential is a LOT higher than it used to be when we first doubled armor.

Double structure as well.

AND change all quirks to armor on top of it and leave them in place.

Did you forget triple basic skills, higher capacity heatsinks and insane mobility boost from basic skills back in the day?
With much less armored mechs (less armor/structure quirks and no armor/structure skill tree)
Your typical laservomit tbw could do 2 alphas of 5erml and 2lpl(61dmg) i with 1.1 second duration without overheating while using one JJ to take 0 damage when lasers are on cd. (and shorter cd)
Or thuds 5ss with infinity mpl and huge range boost?
Or 9se with 3erppc with 50% heat quirk?
Or dakka dire with 6 uac5 without ghost heat and much lower jam chance with lower heat per shot.
Damn even Grid iron with 1/3 gauss CD or Machine gun ac5 dragon 5N.

Why do people think we have higher damage output today.

Edited by sceii, 05 December 2017 - 11:26 PM.

[Xavori]

Khobai, on 05 December 2017 - 10:13 PM, said:

structure quirks are probably fine on clan mechs

if clan mechs had armor quirks the low crit health on their equipment wouldnt matter



I dunno about doubling again

+50% more sounds better (triple structure/armor compared to tabletop)

because when they went from 8v8 to 12v12 they shouldve given us 50% more structure, armor, and ammo but they never did

Ya. We definitely need more ammo per ton now too since matches have more stuffs that need killing. It's pretty obvious when looking at how many shots MRM's get versus any other missile type that nobody at PGI thought about that.

[Trismegistus]

Skill changes gave an extra 10-25% armor for anyone smart enough to take survival tree.

You guys really need to learn to avoid enemy fire rather than asking PGI to ruin the game balance.

You double armor right now, energy weapons become useless. It would take a laser boat about 1 full minute to bring down an atlas if it just sat there afk as it constantly waited for heat to dissipate. Low HPS and high DPS weapons like SRM, LBX, Gauss, and autocannons would be the only viable weapons. Instead of fights being based on skill they would be a massive brawl where the team with the highest DPH wins. All lights would just be running around with machine guns, having 70 armor in each leg...

Just no.

[Khobai]

Quote

Skill changes gave an extra 10-25% armor for anyone smart enough to take survival tree.

10% more armor is crap

thats nothing. thats like 12 extra armor on the CT of a 100 ton mech. thats like 1/6th of an alphastrike.

survivability tree is almost not even worth the points, its just there to put points into after weapons and operations and 4 points in consumables.

survivability and mobility trees both need huge buffs IMO

Edited by Khobai, 06 December 2017 - 12:50 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

sceii, on 05 December 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Did you forget triple basic skills, higher capacity heatsinks and insane mobility boost from basic skills back in the day?
With much less armored mechs (less armor/structure quirks and no armor/structure skill tree)
Your typical laservomit tbw could do 2 alphas of 5erml and 2lpl(61dmg) i with 1.1 second duration without overheating while using one JJ to take 0 damage when lasers are on cd. (and shorter cd)
Or thuds 5ss with infinity mpl and huge range boost?
Or 9se with 3erppc with 50% heat quirk?
Or dakka dire with 6 uac5 without ghost heat and much lower jam chance with lower heat per shot.
Damn even Grid iron with 1/3 gauss CD or Machine gun ac5 dragon 5N.

Why do people think we have higher damage output today.

Because your memory is faulty.

Because skills were double basic, not triple. And with the skill tree allowing you to directly reduce heat generation, you no longer need the double basic. Then there is the fact that PGI gave all DHS the higher cap from the IS version as well as the higher dissipation from the Clan one.

Because IS 'Mechs had greater durability in 2015 to early 2016. Blackjacks, Black Knights, Quickdraws, Warhammers, Marauders, etc, the QQ was real...they were also able to spread damage better thanks to the greater mobility.

Because Clan laservomit was typically 2x LPL and 5x ERML for 61 points over 1.15 seconds. Today we add another ERML so it is 66 over 1.125 seconds thanks to the skill tree. Or 64 over 1.215 with ERLL. Alternatively, it's 71 over 1.395 seconds with HLL or 78 over the same on Assaults. The cMPL changes makev56 over 0.81 a cakewalk. The dual Gauss and lasers is a lot more common , too, since it can be run much faster than before with better mounts. IS vomit has been nerfed pretty hard, I'll grant you that. Can't even get to 58 points anymore without the rare 9 hardpoints and it's way hotter and way slower with minor improvements to range only for Medium lasers being swapped to ER.

Because even back then, Clan vomit was heat limited and not cool-down limited, which is half the reason why the cool-down nerf is so widely panned.

Because coolshots today start at 18 and you get 2, where before they were 6 and 9 and you could only have one of each.

Because the TDR-9S (not SE) meme lasted for three months and even then was only a thing in FW.

Because the TDR-5SS, for as good as it was, was still having to rely on multiple pokes at a shorter range than cMPL, let alone cERML, to do the damage, rendering the durability moot and lowering its output at the dominant poking range of 450 meters.

Because 3x UAC/2 have higher output than that old AC/5 DRG-1N (not 5N) ever did, with more range and faster projectiles. Ditto the 8x UAC/2 Dire against the 5x UAC/5.

Because of MRMs, RACs, UACs, HPPCs, and greater range being afforded to the IS, making the damage higher for farther.

And, finally, because it's all relative to how well you can distribute the damage and fire again anyway. 'Mechs today suck at it compared to back then. The technically longer TTK of today, if it even is, is functionally useless because you cannot do anything with it.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 06 December 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[Revis Volek]

sceii, on 05 December 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

Did you forget triple basic skills, higher capacity heatsinks and insane mobility boost from basic skills back in the day?
With much less armored mechs (less armor/structure quirks and no armor/structure skill tree)
Your typical laservomit tbw could do 2 alphas of 5erml and 2lpl(61dmg) i with 1.1 second duration without overheating while using one JJ to take 0 damage when lasers are on cd. (and shorter cd)
Or thuds 5ss with infinity mpl and huge range boost?
Or 9se with 3erppc with 50% heat quirk?
Or dakka dire with 6 uac5 without ghost heat and much lower jam chance with lower heat per shot.
Damn even Grid iron with 1/3 gauss CD or Machine gun ac5 dragon 5N.

Why do people think we have higher damage output today.

Because it shows up nice and easy in the mech lab and no one has to maths the quirks like we used to.