32 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

A bunch of 2-4 man groups on one side typically means 6-8 assaults....vs a 10 man with....600 tons to work with. Most groups don't usually queue past 6 people due to huge tonnage restrictions. There's a reason why 12 man MS groups in group queue resort to crab rushes. Try again?

except balancing by tonnage is complete crap. a 100 ton mech is often worse than a 65 ton mech. more tonnage isnt always guaranteed to be better. 100 ton mechs would be the absolute best mechs in the game if that was the case, but theyre not.

and the 10-12 mans are generally better players that are much more organized

so no its not balanced.

the way group queue should work is it should put equal tonnage and equal size groups on both teams. it shouldnt put a big organized group of players on one team and a bunch of smaller unorganized groups on the other team. thats crap and the extra tonnage doesnt balance it because extra tonnage isnt always better.


and if youre in a small group with like one friend, it should put you in the solo queue, not group queue. but it should put another two man group on the opposite team to balance it out. with a max of one group per team. two man groups dont belong in group queue at all.

group queue should be for groups of 4, 8, or 12 players only. and the matches should be either 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12 depending on how many players. that way you always get equal size groups on each team.

Edited by Khobai, 06 December 2017 - 04:35 PM.

[Spheroid]

You should have teamed up and dropped FP or scouting.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 06 December 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

except balancing by tonnage is crap. a 100 ton mech is often worse than a 65 ton mech. more tonnage isnt always guaranteed to be better.

and the 10 mans are generally better players that are more organized

so no its not balanced.

the way group queue should work is it should put equal tonnage and equal size groups on both teams.

and if youre in a small group with like one friend, it should put you in the solo queue, not group queue.

3 man groups have 255 tons to work with. Assuming pretty even skill level, 4 3 man groups of 2 deathstrikes + 75 tonner, even with less organisation will be able to beat a 12 man full of 50 ton mechs. I find the opposite for groups and skill level. Often the highest skilled groups in group queue are the 3-5 man groups. Any higher, and it gets really boring. Often the super large groups are made up of average players.

Just look at Tier up's groups, they're often 4-6 players that pretty much only lose one out of 8 matches, regardless of how big of a group the opposition is.

Edited by Vxheous, 06 December 2017 - 04:40 PM.

[ocular tb]

I don't think the current PSR and Tier system can truly make matches that are "balanced" because it can't differentiate the actual skill levels between two players in the same tier. So with the current system I'm not looking to have longer queue times for what I believe would be a marginal improvement if any.

[Khobai]

Quote

3 man groups have 255 tons to work with. Assuming pretty even skill level, 4 3 man groups of 2 deathstrikes + 75 tonner, even with less organisation will be able to beat a 12 man full of 50 ton mechs. I find the opposite for groups and skill level. Often the highest skilled groups in group queue are the 3-5 man groups. Any higher, and it gets really boring. Often the super large groups are made up of average players

but if what youre saying is true, then its still not balanced.

the better way of balancing group queue would be to have equal tonnage and equal group sizes on both teams.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 06 December 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

but if what youre saying is true, then its still not balanced.

the better way of balancing group queue would be to have equal tonnage and equal group sizes on both teams.

Yeah I could agree with fixed group sizes maybe in even numbers only to help with the jigsaw. The tonnage limits on groups tend to create some interesting matches though but the tonnage values should be tweaked again.

[sycocys]

One of the last really fun matches I had running with my unit we dropped 12 identical (iirc, was at least nearly so) HBK-4P's.

I think the other side was only heavy and assault - so a mix of smaller groups.

It wasn't really a balanced match, but even the other side had a good laugh at getting trounced by a pile of Hunches.

-- Don't really think there's a good way to balance any of the queues without implementing a BV system and restriction. Tonnage won't work because there's just too many outlier mechs that punch way above their weight - and too many the other way as well that fight as though they were two weight classes under what they are.

[Khobai]

I think only allowing groups of 4, 8, or 12 and then having 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12 matches is the best way to handle group queue. then you always have equal sized groups on both teams and the tonnage potential is always the same. and if 12v12 is removed from quickplay entirely in favor of 8v8, that would eliminate a bucket.

and put 2 man groups into solo queue, but put one 2 man group on each team so its balanced. max of one group per team to prevent sync drops of multiple 2 mans.

Edited by Khobai, 06 December 2017 - 05:22 PM.

[Relishcakes]

I played a few times with a buddy in a 2 man late at night(2-3am for me...he is australian) we got in within a minute. I think you dun goof'd on your timing.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 06 December 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

and if youre in a small group with like one friend, it should put you in the solo queue, not group queue. but it should put another two man group on the opposite team to balance it out. with a max of one group per team. two man groups dont belong in group queue at all.

group queue should be for groups of 4, 8, or 12 players only. and the matches should be either 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12 depending on how many players. that way you always get equal size groups on each team.

This would surely help, especially for introducing new players to the game (after they play the Academy & a few private matches).

[Tarl Cabot]

Khobai, on 06 December 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

...

and put 2 man groups into solo queue, but put one 2 man group on each team so its balanced. max of one group per team to prevent sync drops of multiple 2 mans.

Even then, PGI would have to take the set it up so that Tier is not average. If one player is tier 2 and the new player is of course tier 5 they should be considered tier 2. The real issue would be if PGI can code it to allow only one duo per side. That was one of the major issues, sync dropping in smaller groups, and way before in-game VOIP and the group queue was only for full 12-man drops only.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 07 December 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[Wolfways]

This is how it works:
You make a great game, get lots of players, and the MM has an easy time making teams faster.

Pgi did none of that.

[Throe]

JinSR, on 06 December 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

You really have trouble reading and comprehending what I posted for the second time. Im saying matchmaking is a problem, group queue is vastly too difficult to find games compared to single, and that needs to be changed.

And secondly, Im not sure you understand coding and programming when you say stuff like "Theres no way to speed it up." (There is, other games do it and do it easily), and you think having code that takes 20 minutes to put groups into 24 players is hard is the norm.....

There is actually a way to speed it up. They tried it briefly. They combined the group queue and the solo queue briefly. It was a disaster. 12 man organized teams playing against PUGs. Which is worse? A long wait time for a relatively balanced match, or an instant match where your team gets obliterated in the course of about 4 minutes?

You might try it sync dropping, if you can get your friend to try again. Sync dropping is simply pressing "Quick Play" at the same moment as a friend/teammate in order to attempt to get into a single match on the same team despite not being in a group at all.

Alternatively, try letting him play solo a few matches to see how good he is at the game. Maybe he'll take naturally to it, and his PSR will get up into Tier 4. This will make it easier for you and him to get a match in group queue together.

Edited by Throe, 07 December 2017 - 11:45 AM.