20 replies to this topic

[valrond]

Yes, I know there is a thread about the Sun Spider, but they don't talk about why it is a missed opportunity.

The problem with have with omnimechs in MWO is that you can't change the engine and the enhancements like endo-steel or ferro-fibrous. That leaves us with very few real different options. Yes, you have different hard-points, but that's about it. Clan mechs, specially omnimechs have very few quirks, so there is another chance of making the new mech something different. We have the same builds, cause we have the same pod space.

Making this mech a non-canon Battletech mech is fine by me. We have been constrained by the TT rules so all omnimechs have the exact same speeds, depending on how many hexes it would move in the board game. So, we had 48, 64, 81, 97, 113 and 129 kph. That's it, no more, no less, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 hexes walking speed, hence, the engine rating.

And here is where PGI could have done something different. In MWO we are not constrained by hexes, so regular battlemechs can put any engine they want (except for the cap). Why didn't PGI put a different engine on the Sun Spider? Something between the 64 and 81 kph, something between the Nova Cat and the Thor (I still prefer Thor to Summoner). Why not an XL300 or an XL325. We could even have different variants with different engines. Fixed, of course, like the rest of the omnimechs.

Using an XL300 will give you 38.89 free pod space (with max armor and no fixed DHS or equipment), with 69.4 kph. An XL325 will increase the speed to 75.2 and leave 35.39 free pod space.

This was the chance to do it, and, unfortunatelly, they wasted it, and gave us something it's, well, quite meh.

So, what do you think? It would be better if PGI did something like this?

[Bombast]

The Sun Spider, like the Roughnech before it, is, in fact, canon. As such, it follows TT (The most restrictive) rules, so it can be used in all Battletech titles, from now till forever.

They made the right move.

[valrond]

Bombast, on 09 December 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

The Sun Spider, like the Roughnech before it, is, in fact, canon. As such, it follows TT (The most restrictive) rules, so it can be used in all Battletech titles, from now till forever.

They made the right move.

Well, the thing is that we will rarely see that Mech outside of MWO. But we will definitely play it here. The could have done something different.
The Roughneck can change engines, so that is not a problem. Omnimechs can't, hence why a different choice of engine made sense.

[Khobai]

Quote

Why not an XL300 or an XL325.

omnimech engines are always multiples of their own tonnage

280 would be the next size down

but yes the sunspider shouldve had a 280 engine like the novacat

there were already more than enough fast clan heavies with oversized engines. we didnt need another one.

Edited by Khobai, 09 December 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[Seranov]

Not particularly fussed either way. I feel like too many people complain about Clan Omnis being over-engined because they don't realize that's the whole point. There are a lot of people who play this game who would gladly run with the absolute smallest engine possible on a mech, cram it full of weapons, and proceed to get left behind by their team who decide sticking together is a terrible plan. Does it mean the Sun Spider isn't going to be the next meta mech? Probably, but I honestly feel that's a good thing.

Like, I get it, worrying about efficiency and all that nonsense is how some people enjoy their video game. I understand, but it's that kind of thinking that makes games unbearably boring. The same thinking that says "either run Gauss Vomit of 2 HLL + 6 ERML or don't bother playing the game, because everything else is garbage" and makes for some of the least entertaining and least engaging gameplay that is so endemic to most matches. I don't know how many other people would rather watch paint dry than spend 8-10 minutes of every match hiding behind cover only to peek out, take a single potshot, then hide for another minute or so, but I generally can't stomach it for that long, even when playing my Laser Vomit mechs.

I'm probably going to buy the Standard pack at least and run the Prime as an Orion IIC that isn't ugly as sin.

[Bombast]

valrond, on 09 December 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Well, the thing is that we will rarely see that Mech outside of MWO. But we will definitely play it here. The could have done something different.

That's short sighted.

Quote

The Roughneck can change engines, so that is not a problem.

If the Roughneck had a 'weird' engine stock, it would be a problem.

Quote

Omnimechs can't, hence why a different choice of engine made sense.

I get where you're coming, but MWO isn't a game - It's part of a decades old franchise with 2 other concurrent partners. While I understand and agree that not everything in every game needs to line up perfectly, especially balance wise, but all the parts do need to link together on a fundamental level at least.

Edited by Bombast, 09 December 2017 - 05:20 PM.

[Khobai]

its not about always running the smallest or most efficient engine possible.

its about the sunspider being unique. its not unique when its just another fast clan heavy with an oversized engine that relies too much on lasers.

it wouldve been far more unique if it had a 280 engine and enough podspace to do something different from laser vomit.

now its just another overengined laser vomit mech like most other clan heavies. and energy hardpoints are held ransom behind a hero mech paywall. total missed opportunity. they had a chance to sell a mech people actually wouldve bought even without deceptive tactics like hiding the compulsory energy hardpoints behind a $35 paywall.

Edited by Khobai, 09 December 2017 - 05:31 PM.

[visionGT4]

Khobai, on 09 December 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

omnimech engines are always multiples of their own tonnage

280 would be the next size down

but yes the sunspider shouldve had a 280 engine like the novacat

there were already more than enough fast clan heavies with oversized engines. we didnt need another one.

poor clams with that 22ton 350 rated engine that can survive the loss of a ST and

1 ton large lasers
12 ton goose
10 ton uac10


clam struggle is real yo

Edited by visionGT4, 09 December 2017 - 05:26 PM.

[Bombast]

visionGT4, on 09 December 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

1 ton large lasers

I'm guessing you mean 1 slot.

[Sjorpha]

350 looks like it will be pretty damn good to me.

[visionGT4]

Bombast, on 09 December 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

I'm guessing you mean 1 slot.

no I mean 1 ton ML's that have effectively the same performance as 5ton IS LL's

[Bombast]

visionGT4, on 09 December 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

no I mean 1 ton ML's that have effectively the same performance as 5ton IS LL's

Not true - IS Large Lasers have a significant Cooldown advantage now! All hail the Medium Nerf!

[davoodoo]

visionGT4, on 09 December 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

no I mean 1 ton ML's that have effectively the same performance as 5ton IS LL's

Effectively 25% less damage, longer cooldown(thx medium nerf, now go **** yourself) and 10% less range.

Sure they weight much less, but saying theyre as good as llas is a lie.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 December 2017 - 05:33 PM.

[FupDup]

It would've been nice if the Sun Spider was a Battlemech (instead of Omnimech), since the Clans in MWO have very few of them outside of the assault class.

Edited by FupDup, 09 December 2017 - 05:34 PM.

[visionGT4]

davoodoo, on 09 December 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

Effectively 25% less damage, longer cooldown(thx medium nerf, now go **** yourself) and 10% less range.

Sure they weight much less, but saying theyre as good as llas is a lie.

apologise/deny much?


So for 5x the mass and 2x the volume LL's are 25% better damage wise and shoot 10% further - now that's the deal of the century if ever I saw it

Edited by visionGT4, 09 December 2017 - 05:41 PM.

[davoodoo]

visionGT4, on 09 December 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

apologise/deny much?


So for 5x the mass and 2x the volume LL's are 25% better damage wise and shoot 10% further - now that's the deal of the century if ever I saw it

Well **** if we take weight into account like that

then for 80% less weight is ermed gets 45% less damage, 20% less range and only slightly higher cooldown making it a superior weapon...

Do you see where you went wrong mate??

Edited by davoodoo, 09 December 2017 - 05:43 PM.

[Davegt27]

I bought some Artic wolves recently and it's both Omni Mech and Battle Mech

so a lot of versatility

I bought the hero non Omni mech to get some ballistics
if it was not so soft it would be a great Mech

could they have did the same with the spider?
that is make it both Omni and battle Mech?

Edited by Davegt27, 09 December 2017 - 05:52 PM.

[Humpday]

looks like a giant locust no?
Not much armor looks like though. Much less than the Novacat comparatively. High mounts though.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 09 December 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

It would've been nice if the Sun Spider was a Battlemech (instead of Omnimech), since the Clans in MWO have very few of them outside of the assault class.

there were multiple options

omnimech with 280 engine
omnimech with 280 engine and masc
battlemech

all of them better than omnimech with 350 engine

[Damnedtroll]

The only thing that bother me, it's his tonnage... we needed another clan 60 tons battlemech not a 70 tons.