28 replies to this topic

[Emn1ty]

So being someone who has played this game since beta, and bought the founders pack and still continues to enjoy this game and this years many actually good improvements. I wanted to strike up discussion about the release model for new mechs. Most specifically the timelines.

First of all, the current timeline here.

1. Early Adopter Rewards begin.
2. Early Adpoter Rewards end (1 month)
3. Mech Pack Releases (2 months)
4. Mech Release In-Game MC (5 months)
5. Mech Release In-Game C-Bills (1 month)

So from the initial pre-order to when the mech is available in-game for in-game currency is 9 months.

I literally forget mechs exist in this amount of time, I almost have to keep a calendar just to know when the mech packs I bought release, and when the ones I didn't will be available in-game. It's absurd when other games with similar models release everything on the same day or within a couple weeks of each other.

When packs are $10-$40 minimum... why are you making it so painful to wait for these things in-game? All you're doing is 1) creating a pay wall 2) making people not care about what mechs are coming out unless they have money to buy them right away.

Not to mention you can't just buy one variant, you have to buy three variants in a pack. The rule of three is no longer in the game, why not allow people to buy a single variant for $2-$10 instead of demanding $10-$40 drops for variants people likely don't even want? Especially when even to buy the specific variants for cash in-game these people have to wait over half a year just to have access to them.

[FupDup]

Emn1ty, on 19 November 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

Not to mention you can't just buy one variant, you have to buy three variants in a pack. The rule of three is no longer in the game, why not allow people to buy a single variant for $2-$10 instead of demanding $10-$40 drops for variants people likely don't even want? Especially when even to buy the specific variants for cash in-game these people have to wait over half a year just to have access to them.

This is one of my biggest gripes with the current system. PGI went to so many lengths to eliminate the rule of three, yet their preorder model is still designed around it.

I've said that people should be able to manually pick-and-choose each variant they want, with the price per unit starting higher but steadily getting more efficient if you choose to buy in bulk (reward large purchases). Stuff like premium time, camo colors, and other bonuses also activate once you reach a certain number of variants ordered.

And yes, this means that "reinforcement" variants would no longer be able to be paywalled away (locking the strongest variants in the reinforcement pack is absolutely scummy business).

On this same vein I think that people should be able to choose which mech gets the (S)pecial bonus instead of it always being the prime variant (which usually sucks). Additionally, the (S)pecial variant shouldn't cost as much as the entire basic pack like it currently does. That's just ridiculous.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Emn1ty, on 19 November 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

When packs are $10-$40 minimum... why are you making it so painful to wait for these things in-game? All you're doing is 1) creating a pay wall 2) making people not care about what mechs are coming out unless they have money to buy them right away.

Not to mention you can't just buy one variant, you have to buy three variants in a pack. The rule of three is no longer in the game, why not allow people to buy a single variant for $2-$10 instead of demanding $10-$40 drops for variants people likely don't even want? Especially when even to buy the specific variants for cash in-game these people have to wait over half a year just to have access to them.

There will be a breaking point between how long people are willing to pre-order and wait, or just wait for the C-Bill release. Too far one way or the other, and not enough of those packs sell in the first year. Another example of this are the (L) 'mechs, where people will spend more on other things to get them, not just because of their unique camo or C-Bill boost, but also because they won't be available for C-Bills for about 9 months.

As to buying the exact 'mech you want from a pack, like the old A La Carte option? I ran the numbers in a similar thread, using the past packs as examples. It came out at $16-$18 per 'mech, with a reduction of $2 per additional 'mech, up to 3 (or maybe it was 4), down to $10-$14 per 'mech.

I'm not saying I'm right, I just used the packs solved previously to make a rough guess of how much it would cost, but honestly the splitting out of the (S) variant & the inclusion of a Hero really screws with the calculations.

I think it's safe to say that it would be $10 minimum for a single non-Light 'mech, if they gave us an A La Carte option.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 19 November 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

I've said that people should be able to manually pick-and-choose each variant they want, with the price per unit starting higher but steadily getting more efficient if you choose to buy in bulk (reward large purchases). Stuff like premium time, camo colors, and other bonuses also activate once you reach a certain number of variants ordered.

On this same vein I think that people should be able to choose which mech gets the (S)pecial bonus instead of it always being the prime variant (which usually sucks). Additionally, the (S)pecial variant shouldn't cost as much as the entire basic pack like it currently does. That's just ridiculous.

Going off older packs, it's unlikely any of the extras would be included in an A La Carte purchase.

As to the price of the (S) variant, it's $5 more than the Hero, plus it includes another 30 days of PT, 2 more of each cockpit item and an additional badge & title. It's a better deal than the Hero, which you can always pick up in an MC sale, using discounted MC, for an even lower overall price.

[Spheroid]

There is a mech price below which PGI does not make money. That price point involved the intitial Locust reinforcement years ago which was purchased singlely.

The Piranha which is the same weight class as the Locust could be in the mold.

Look at the margins on the Javelin or Assassin. They would significantly less if people only purchased the ASN-21 instead of the $20 pack.

If you break even at $3, the profit is many times less than a slightly lower number of sales with a much higher margin.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Spheroid, on 19 November 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Look at the margins on the Javelin or Assassin. They would significantly less if people only purchased the ASN-21 instead of the $20 pack.

If you break even at $3, the profit is many times less than a slightly lower number of sales with a much higher margin.

We dont know if the number of sales would actualy be less with a la carte approach.
I would buy several mechs right away if they were not in package of 3 and I'm pretty average customer so I imagine there may be other people like me.

[Nightbird]

If people picked out only the good variants, PGI won't survive. If it was your own company, would you take that risk?

[FupDup]

Nightbird, on 19 November 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

If people picked out only the good variants, PGI won't survive. If it was your own company, would you take that risk?

Maybe it's a symptom that PGI should try a bit harder to make the bad variants not quite as bad.

Quirks in large enough magnitude can save literally anything and make even the weakest mechs into OP monsters if used liberally. The only obstacle is dealing with the people who proclaim "overquirked!" when they see spreadsheet values that "look too big" on paper but in reality have lower gameplay impact than the raw values would suggest.

Edited by FupDup, 19 November 2017 - 12:38 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Nightbird, on 19 November 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

If people picked out only the good variants, PGI won't survive. If it was your own company, would you take that risk?

Don't know man. Just saying what am I willing to buy and why I'm not buying what is currently on offer.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

The big question it comes down to is "How does PGI make money" to keep the game going and make a profit. 6 months to wait for MC and 9 months for cbills on a mechs is not a lot to ask for.

How they do this by to make money:
Selling new mech packs (in my opinion the highest revenue generator)
Selling existing mechs from store
Selling MC (buy existing mechs, mechbays, converting xp to gxp)
Selling a very limited list of consumables like cbills or supply cache keys


IF mech packs are the best sale item PGI has why would they change it?

Its not like other games where getting items like High tech weapons or advanced equipment cost real dollars or MC in our case. Other than mechs themselves, We get almost everything we need in game if you grind for it or are willing to wait for it to be as in game currency.

PGI could have an "advanced tech store" where you could buy tech items that have a 5-10% bonus to it for MC. Maybe a mech can equip only one advanced device on it. Or Imagine if you could "buy" a star league era targeting computer for IS but it cost MC. would you buy it?

PGI has options to make more money but so far they have tried to keep the game balanced as best they can. So many other online games are just pay to win or simply pay if you want to even compete.

Edited by A Really Old Clan Dude, 19 November 2017 - 12:54 PM.

[Spheroid]

Its really quite a simple bit of math. The margin increases much quicker than the demand drops off. Knowing this one can input various guesses at what the average consumer price elasticity is based on educated guess work and the known meta/hero leaderboard population figures.

Mathematically I believe PGI is pricing correctly from their perspective.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 November 2017 - 01:00 PM.

[FupDup]

A Really Old Clan Dude, on 19 November 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

The big question it comes down to is "How does PGI make money" to keep the game going and make a profit. 6 months to wait for MC and 9 months for cbills on a mechs is not a lot to ask for.

Some easy ideas:

1. Pilot avatar customization

2. Bolt-on special geometry (already in the works)

3. Rework the supply cache system (in the works but seems to be on the backburner) because gambling boxes done effectively generate massive revenue

4. Money-boosting cockpit items sold for MC (currently the only way to get these is with the civil war early adopter bonus)

5. Let people hero-ize any mech of their choice for the same price as a hero mech of that tonnage (so that the "lower hero sales" excuse is invalidated), perhaps also allow the same thing for champion mechs

And no one is asking for the monthly mech packs to go away.

[Emn1ty]

I think the pricing discussion has become a bit of a tangent. The big issue I see here is the timelines. Months to wait for content in-game, even after having purchased it, is insane. The fact I have to keep going back to the website to check if what I bought came out or is coming out soon is poor management. These things should release fully in a matter of weeks, not over half a year.

PS. There are a lot of things that if changed would give me the incentive to purchase more. Making camo patterns work for all mechs. Eliminating mech bays in general so I don't feel like I have to worry about how many bays I have available. Releasing in-game and pre-order content simulataneously so I can pick when I want to buy with cash or in-game currency. There are a lot of barriers to purchase in this game which is likely why the prices are so high. If it was easy to simply just buy the thing you want I'd be spending hundreds of not thousands in this game already much like I have LoL. But everytime I go to buy something I hesitate.

Edited by Emn1ty, 19 November 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Nightbird]

Agree with the pace, should be no more than 2 months from announce to release.

[Nameless King]

Nema Nabojiv, on 19 November 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

We dont know if the number of sales would actualy be less with a la carte approach.
I would buy several mechs right away if they were not in package of 3 and I'm pretty average customer so I imagine there may be other people like me.

I would never buy a pack again if they were only sold individually.

[Troa Barton]

FupDup, on 19 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Some easy ideas:

1. Pilot avatar customization

2. Bolt-on special geometry (already in the works)

3. Rework the supply cache system (in the works but seems to be on the backburner) because gambling boxes done effectively generate massive revenue

4. Money-boosting cockpit items sold for MC (currently the only way to get these is with the civil war early adopter bonus)

5. Let people hero-ize any mech of their choice for the same price as a hero mech of that tonnage (so that the "lower hero sales" excuse is invalidated), perhaps also allow the same thing for champion mechs

And no one is asking for the monthly mech packs to go away.

4 and 5 for me. I like warhorns but what I would prefer to buy is something that actually had an effect and I refuse to buy a mech pack I don't want to get those cockpit items. As far as "hero-izing" any mech that's the big ticket right there. I have several mechs that I enjoy and wish had the hero bonus. I can easily think of 10 mechs that I would do this to. Maybe a special camo only available to standard variants that you can buy?

Example of this would be the Loyalty Victor skin available as a one shot camo (300MC) for all standard victors that would give them the 30% cBill boost?
Loyalty mechs would still have a place as you're still getting a free mech, mechbay, and the camo with cBill boost.

[N0ni]

And to think this all started when they changed the release model waaaay back for Highlanders, releasing the Heavy Metal before the C-Bill variants (but there was only a short period inbetween). Now it's all, "Hey, wanna try out the new shiny? Pay us or wait over half a year."

Only good thing about it is giving those who can't buy it some time off MWO and play other things. Not exactly the best way for player retention, but hey i'm not the genius in charge of marketing.

[Jonathan8883]

I'm not interested in buying a pack. I'm also not interested in buying a mech and not getting it for another 4 months. I don't even know if I'll still be playing this game then. If I buy anything, I'll buy it to play today.

Related: I cannot find a way to buy the Locust hero (PB) through the website for real $. Only for MC. Does it still count for next year's loyalty reward (if I'm still around) if I buy it with MC?

[N0ni]

Jonathan8883, on 19 November 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

Related: I cannot find a way to buy the Locust hero (PB) through the website for real $. Only for MC. Does it still count for next year's loyalty reward (if I'm still around) if I buy it with MC?

Store -> Gift Store -> Heroes. It'll send you a code as if you were gifting it to someone, but you can redeem it for yourself.

Second part: No. Purchases with MC do not count period. Buying MC yes, using it no.

[Insanity09]

What if you could get a single mech variant for $8, two for $15, take your choice of the non-hero/champs?
However, no mech bays, no prem time, no colors, no decals, no cbills. (buying a mech with no mech bay available would put your new mech in limbo until you corrected the problem in some way.)

What if you could just buy the hero variant for $12, the champ for $10? Same restrictions as above.

Then make it so that if you bought only one or two variants (of any kind), you could NOT buy any more until the mc/cbill availability.

Basically, add a few more a la carte options to the menu, but keep the existing pack options
(packs with slight alterations to the pricing, perhaps, to make them more attractive compared to the a la carte stuff).

Just a few ideas.