73 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

Chris Lowrey, on 11 December 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Alex G. was not in today so patchnotes are a bit delayed till he gets back in. If the patch is released with the patchnotes still absent, I have been cleared to make an informal post on the balanced based changes with the patch release.

Have you considered some Uziel quirks do not take advantage of their hardpoints? Whats the point of 10% ER Laser cooldown on the 5P when it only has 2 energy hard points? Why give it such specific quirks when it has such a mixed hard point layout? Especially since the 6P enjoys six energy hard points and 10% energy cooldown. Why even bother with the 5P?

[visionGT4]

Can we have an informal post as to why overseer Paul is hell bent on clam tech continuing to be easy mode

Edited by visionGT4, 11 December 2017 - 11:49 PM.

[Exard3k]

MechaBattler, on 11 December 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

Have you considered some Uziel quirks do not take advantage of their hardpoints? Whats the point of 10% ER Laser cooldown on the 5P when it only has 2 energy hard points? Why give it such specific quirks when it has such a mixed hard point layout? Especially since the 6P enjoys six energy hard points and 10% energy cooldown. Why even bother with the 5P?

Mechs usually get quirks more often when the hardpoint amount is limited and/or the locations are sub-optimal to balance their disadvantages a bit. Same with HP-Quirks on rather big components compared to mech geometry.

Edited by Exard3k, 11 December 2017 - 11:59 PM.

[El Bandito]

Very disappointing patchnote, in terms of balancing. Mech con is no excuse for this lazy and sad display of incompetence.

[Vellron2005]

I like the HMG range increase, but the CERLL nerfing is just sad..

How many more times must the clans take the hit for the sake of "bringing stuff more in line"?

It's unnecessary and lame.

Also..

BRING BACK THE LOCK-ON ARC!

Edited by Vellron2005, 12 December 2017 - 01:24 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Those changrs all seem fine to me. Nice to see nova arms and stuff öike that fixed too.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JackalBeast, on 11 December 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

IS HMG gets buffed across the board. All Clan Machine guns get nerfed save the 20m boost to the HMG. This is funny. Weight, right? HMG weighs 1 ton vs CHMG .5? whatever.

Yeah, they should have just doubled the damage of IS MGs.

4x double damage MGs vs 8x normal damage MGs seems balanced.

6x double damage MGs vs 12x normal damage MGs once the Piranha arrives, still balanced.

I like it, good suggestion!

[Lupis Volk]

El Bandito, on 12 December 2017 - 01:03 AM, said:

Very disappointing patchnote, in terms of balancing. Mech con is no excuse for this lazy and sad display of incompetence.

Posts like this show that no matter what you can't please everyone over the littlest and pettiest of things.

PGI is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't with this community.

[Khobai]

Quote

Posts like this show that no matter what you can't please everyone over the littlest and pettiest of things.

PGI is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't with this community.

Its understandable why people are mad

everyone knows midrange laser vomit is a huge problem right now

and PGI has done nothing about it for 3 whole months (2 balance patches and NOTHING)

since PGI only seems to do balance patches every other patch, that now means we have to wait till february for a laser vomit fix....

If you wanna screw around with ERLL adjustments and machine gun adjustments thats fine. But at least fix the pandemic balance issue that is laser vomit...

1) link medium and large lasers and increase ghost heat limit on non-heavy large lasers by 1
2) lower CERML to 6 damage and ~5.5ish heat
3) nerf clan gauss because its 3 tons lighter than IS gauss (make it only do 12 damage but also give it longer range and faster rate of fire so its in between an IS light gauss and IS std gauss)

thats all you have to do PGI. that fixes clan laser vomit and it fixes laser/gauss. and it allows large lasers to be primary weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2017 - 03:36 AM.

[El Bandito]

Lupis Volk, on 12 December 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

Posts like this show that no matter what you can't please everyone over the littlest and pettiest of things.

PGI is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't with this community.

I am specifically disappointed about their lack of more substantial balance changes, not the changed values themselves. OF BLOODY COURSE PGI should also be damned if they do not do anything, cause current balance is not even near acceptable--has been like that for years--and this is a MP only game.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 December 2017 - 04:54 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Lupis Volk, on 12 December 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

Posts like this show that no matter what you can't please everyone over the littlest and pettiest of things.

PGI is dammed if they do and dammed if they don't with this community.

Sorry to be a broken record here, but...

After skills tree dropped PGI said that balance was as close as it has ever been. They gave a percentage of variance between the widest performing chassis between techs of a mere 8% difference. The widest difference between the best and the worst chassis is only 8% (across techs even!). An MK-II exhibits only an 8% difference from that of a Vindicator. That is what they claimed their real and honest observation of in game performance showed. That was 7 months ago.

What have they done since then? What have they done for balance in the last 7 months, when it was apparently and according to them so nearly perfect?

Well, for 6 of the last 7 months they have changed quirks, affected nearly all manner of weapon stats, and screwed with game values in a random and haphazard manner that they refuse to explain with anything other than platitudes such as “our internal values show” or this month’s gem regarding the Zeus: “the generous cool down quirks already present can sometimes work against it” or in regard to Clan machine guns “For Clan Machine Guns we want them to carry the same general offensive punch as the IS variants per-weapon to play into the Faction's niche,” while apparently being totally ignorant that only the clans can boat 6-8 of the things on a light chassis and that such “equality” is anything but equal. But I digress.

For 6 of the last 7 months they have screwed with values for reasons unknown (ya, ya, sure Paul claimed that the ISML nerf was partly due to player demand but he is clearly delusional in this regard or he should prove it) and all of that to presumably reduce that 8% chassis variance to something even more perfect.

Does anyone believe this crap?

I mean presumably after 7 months of near (only November avoided the dartboard) constant changes, shouldn’t that 8% be even more incidental? Hell with all of their real data, and real game play observation, driving all of these changes balance ought to be perfect by now.

But its not. Its not even close and it never was. Either they are not competent to understand “the data” or they are lying to us. You pick. Anyone who’s played this game regularly KNOWS that balance is a mess and PGI’s assertions that their actions are all about improving balance just make them look stupid or nefarious and it is driving people away like never before. Incidentally, how are your wait times lately? Seeing lots of different folks in the queue?

So yeah they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t because their efforts or lack thereof are a mess. Even if you believe that they are pure of heart and ar trying ever so hard to get balance right; they are failing. Their actions are often nonsensical and almost totally ignorant of actual gameplay reality and I for one am just so sick of it.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

People wanted the clan heavy large lasers nerfed.

PGI nerfs Clan ER large instead.

Seems about right.

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 12 December 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

Their actions are often nonsensical and almost totally ignorant of actual gameplay reality and I for one am just so sick of it.

If there is anything new I have learned regarding PGI's balance methods, it is that chiefly relying on "internal metrics" is not the right way to do about balance changes. I hope the balance underling will also come to realize that. Otherwise, just like companies that only look at sales numbers and discard all other factors, it will not end well.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 December 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[valrond]

The Nerf Bat, on 12 December 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

People wanted the clan heavy large lasers nerfed.

PGI nerfs Clan ER large instead.

Seems about right.

SOME people wanted that.
If you have played ANY MMO, be it this game, or the War Thunder series, or the World of ... (Tanks, Planes, Warships), or Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm or other games like those (I mention those cause I play those games), in ALL OF THOSE GAMES, there are always people complaining about how bad the balance of the game is, in each and everyone of those games.

And the truth is there is no perfect balance unless we have all the same mechs with the same weapons, no choice. All with exactly the same (that happens in iRacing, everyone drives the same car, except for a couple of multicar GT series).

MWO balance is good, it's not perfect, it will never be perfect whatever the creators do. So deal with it or play single player games.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

valrond, on 12 December 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

SOME people wanted that.
If you have played ANY MMO, be it this game, or the War Thunder series, or the World of ... (Tanks, Planes, Warships), or Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm or other games like those (I mention those cause I play those games), in ALL OF THOSE GAMES, there are always people complaining about how bad the balance of the game is, in each and everyone of those games.

And the truth is there is no perfect balance unless we have all the same mechs with the same weapons, no choice. All with exactly the same (that happens in iRacing, everyone drives the same car, except for a couple of multicar GT series).

MWO balance is good, it's not perfect, it will never be perfect whatever the creators do. So deal with it or play single player games.

Who said anything about balance?

I said

The Nerf Bat, on 12 December 2017 - 05:16 AM, said:

People wanted the clan heavy large lasers nerfed.

Which you can read about here. https://mwomercs.com...y-large-lasers/


Now show me the last thread where people wanted the Clan ER Large nerfed.

[Mcgral18]

valrond, on 12 December 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

And the truth is there is no perfect balance unless we have all the same mechs with the same weapons, no choice. All with exactly the same (that happens in iRacing, everyone drives the same car, except for a couple of multicar GT series).

MWO balance is good, it's not perfect, it will never be perfect whatever the creators do. So deal with it or play single player games.

How wrong you are

MWOWC semi finals had sub 15% Sphere pick rate
Exclusively highly quirked chassis'

Were the Finals any different?

PGIs balance is outright bad, and has been for years. Multiple community contributors could do a far better job with a month on the PTS than PGI has done in 5 years, under both the Balance Overlord, and now the Underling.


Perfect balance, true, will likely never happen. I'd settle for 30/70 balance
Right now we have 85/15


It's piss poor, far worse than it has been in the past, with no hopeful glimmer in the future.
What we have, as Russ put nicely, is Mediocre
I'd argue incompetent...but that might infringe on a SafeSpace. Can't have that on these Christian Forums
Their balance methodologies don't work. They need to stop balancing by Potato

[Tordin]

Does ANYONE have the stats for IS and Clan Machine gun bonus crit dmg and chance?

Judging the patch notes. The LMG and MG got the same but the HMG the low end.
They shouldnt have nerfed the spread THAT much, but I guess it alright, but no more or else the range increase for the HMG would be for no gain.

Regarding current and future stats for MG, how should they be changed to? I cant get the game to work right now for the nt' time. So I dont have the current stats in my head.


Light Machine Gun

• Spread ?
Damage ?
• Range ?
• Max Range ?
• Crit Multiplier ?
Crit Chance?
Crit Damage?


Machine Gun

• Spread ?
Damage ?
• Range ?
• Max Range?
• Crit Multiplier?
Crit Chance?
Crit Damage?


Heavy Machine Gun

• Spread reduced to 1 (from 1.1)
Damage ?
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80)
• Max Range Increased to 200 (from 180)
Crit Chance?
• Crit Multiplier increased to 7 (from 6)
Crit Damage?

Clan Light Machine Gun

• Spread Increased to 0.7 (from 0.5)
Damage?
Range?
Max Range?
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9)
Crit Chance?
Crit Damage?

Clan Machine Gun

• Spread Increased to 0.84 (from 0.6)
Damage ?
Range?
Max Range?
• Crit Multiplier reduced to 8 (from 9)
Crit Chance ?
Crit Damage?

Clan Heavy Machine Gun

• Spread increased to 1.3 (from 1.1)
• Range Increased to 100 (from 80)
• Max Range increased to 200 (from 160)
Crit Multiplier?
Crit Chance ?
Crit Damage?

I really wish weapons that have the opportunity to crit would have crit stats in the mech lab. MG, missiles, lbx autocannons. Must have.

Edited by Tordin, 12 December 2017 - 09:40 AM.

[Koniving]

JackalBeast, on 11 December 2017 - 04:10 PM, said:

It's the day before. What is going on?

I found the patch notes yesterday at 10 PM. It says it was uploaded the day before at 11:44 PM. o.O;

[MechaBattler]

Exard3k, on 11 December 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Mechs usually get quirks more often when the hardpoint amount is limited and/or the locations are sub-optimal to balance their disadvantages a bit. Same with HP-Quirks on rather big components compared to mech geometry.

Well, now. Since apparently "quirks are bad" mentality kicked in. The Uziel isn't such a good mech that such cautious approach is necessary. Especially with other 50 tonners doing it better. If they want the Uziel to be a good harasser. They should consider a speed tweak quirk. Most of the Uziels hard points are limited and varied. But at 50 tons it's heavy weapon options are limited unless you go XL. But those shoulders make it a huge liability. Especially as the arms don't provide much shielding. I think the shoulders are big enough to constitute some armor on them.

[FupDup]

Tordin, on 12 December 2017 - 09:28 AM, said:

Does ANYONE have the stats for IS and Clan Machine gun bonus crit dmg and chance?

Judging the patch notes. The LMG and MG got the same but the HMG the low end.
They shouldnt have nerfed the spread THAT much, but I guess it alright, but no more or else the range increase for the HMG would be for no gain.

Regarding current and future stats for MG, how should they be changed to? I cant get the game to work right now for the nt' time. So I dont have the current stats in my head.
-snip-

The values across both factions were equal before the patch, so for example the IS LMG still sits at 0.5 spread and 9x crit multiplier since it didn't get nerfed like the Clan one.

The base damage per bullet / damage per second values are easily found in Smurfys.