29 replies to this topic

[Vellron2005]

Ok, so, you've all had your fun with nerfing the lock-on arcs..

Most people I've talked with about this are in agreement - lock on arcs at 20% have absolutely killed the noble art of LRM bending.

You know what I'm talking about, right?

The way experienced LRM users could make the LRMs go around corners and over obstacles?

LRM bending was the hallmark of a good LRM user.. and now.. with this low lock-on arc.. it's dead.

PGI, please bring back the Lock-on Arc to 45%, or whatever it used to be before you nerfed it into oblivion.

Your nerf has made a weapon that has 10+ counters and was already difficult to use even harder to use..

Note:

This is NOT a thread about how LRMs suck or not suck.. this is strictly for LRM users and LRM bending..

[Sjorpha]

Yeah i agree that was one of the few skill based things you could learn to do with lrms.

Also silly they nerfed a weapon that has been underpowered for years.

[The Basilisk]

In my eyes LRM's are a low dmg potential area saturation/area denial/suppression weapon.
It is a trap for the unaware and noobish.

That they do.

As you said, if this makes sense within the current setup of MWO is written somewhere else.....

Edited by The Basilisk, 12 December 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Less people can shoot around corners?

Where did I put all my cares...

[Vxheous]

I'm pretty sure nerfing "bending" was exactly what PGI wanted to do, as described in Oct patch notes (they mention nerfing bending for ATMs, but its the same for LRMS):
Missile Lock Design Notes: This global change to the Missile Lock threshold has been implemented as a result of a number of balance issues that stemmed from its previous behavior.
• For LRMs, we want to increase the amount of focus needed to maintained sustained fire with the weapon.
• For Streak SRMs, we want to increase the difficulty of maintaining a weapons lock at close range, making it a bit easier for lighter, more mobile 'Mechs to break the lock.
• For ATMs, we want to greatly diminish the ability for 'Mechs to work around the shallow weapon arc by being able to 'curve' missiles around environmental obstructions while still maintaining their lock at close ranges, with minimal threat of return fire.

Edited by Vxheous, 12 December 2017 - 01:43 AM.

[sceii]

You still can bend missles a bit, you you have hand actuators and racks in torsos you can use button to toggle view so you control hand reticle and your torso stay still.
Helps a lot.

[Vellron2005]

Vxheous, on 12 December 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure nerfing "bending" was exactly what PGI wanted to do, as described in Oct patch notes (they mention nerfing bending for ATMs, but its the same for LRMS):
Missile Lock Design Notes: This global change to the Missile Lock threshold has been implemented as a result of a number of balance issues that stemmed from its previous behavior.
• For LRMs, we want to increase the amount of focus needed to maintained sustained fire with the weapon.
• For Streak SRMs, we want to increase the difficulty of maintaining a weapons lock at close range, making it a bit easier for lighter, more mobile 'Mechs to break the lock.
• For ATMs, we want to greatly diminish the ability for 'Mechs to work around the shallow weapon arc by being able to 'curve' missiles around environmental obstructions while still maintaining their lock at close ranges, with minimal threat of return fire.

I can maaaaybe agree with this for ATMs, even though it was difficult to do.. but for LRMs it took away much of their usefulness..

The whole point of LRMs is indirect fire.. In their neutered state, they are more like ATMs, witch takes away their uniqueness, and makes it really hard to use, especially for people who are new to them.

LRMs are NOT meant to be simply long range MRMs.. they are meant to be INDIRECT..

Taking this away from them by nerfing the ark is like making gauss not do critical hits, or like making LBX not spread, or like making PPC's not affect ECM..

Its making uniqueness dead..

[Vxheous]

Vellron2005, on 12 December 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

I can maaaaybe agree with this for ATMs, even though it was difficult to do.. but for LRMs it took away much of their usefulness..

The whole point of LRMs is indirect fire.. In their neutered state, they are more like ATMs, witch takes away their uniqueness, and makes it really hard to use, especially for people who are new to them.

LRMs are NOT meant to be simply long range MRMs.. they are meant to be INDIRECT..

Taking this away from them by nerfing the ark is like making gauss not do critical hits, or like making LBX not spread, or like making PPC's not affect ECM..

Its making uniqueness dead..

You can still shoot from behind cover, just can't bend them. The fact that tag and artemis only work with DIRECT line of sight should already tell you something about how PGI wants them to be played.

[Khobai]

avatar the last missile bender

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2017 - 04:50 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Vxheous, on 12 December 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:

You can still shoot from behind cover, just can't bend them. The fact that tag and artemis only work with DIRECT line of sight should already tell you something about how PGI wants them to be played.

I think you are forgetting about NARC and what that is telling us. LRMs are made for indirect fire. It's their reason for being.

[Vxheous]

Savage Wolf, on 12 December 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

I think you are forgetting about NARC and what that is telling us. LRMs are made for indirect fire. It's their reason for being.

Nope, didn't forget about NARC, but then that requires someone else to get that on target. Again, doesn't mean you can't shoot from behind cover, just that you can't "bend" shoot your LRMs.

[Khobai]

Quote

You can still shoot from behind cover, just can't bend them. The fact that tag and artemis only work with DIRECT line of sight should already tell you something about how PGI wants them to be played.

tag works with indirect fire.

artemis only works with direct fire though.

Quote

I think you are forgetting about NARC and what that is telling us. LRMs are made for indirect fire. It's their reason for being.

LRMs are for both direct fire and indirect fire.


And if we had proper destructible terrain you wouldnt need to bend your missiles. buildings, trees, and rocks should not protect you better from missiles than your own armor does.

To prevent abuse by direct fire weapons, terrain should have damage reduction for energy and ballistic weapons but be vulnerable to explosive damage.

I mean if you fire lasers into a buildings its not going to do much. But if you fire a volley of missiles into a building, the building should collapse.

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2017 - 03:46 AM.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 12 December 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

tag works with indirect fire.

artemis only works with direct fire though.



LRMs are for both direct fire and indirect fire.


And if we had proper destructible terrain you wouldnt need to bend your missiles. buildings, trees, and rocks should not protect you better from missiles than your own armor does.

Someone else's tag works for indirect fire (like narc) but you would have to direct fire if you're going to tag for yourself. Either way, PGI made the changes in the Oct patch because they didn't want people bending missile shots.

Edited by Vxheous, 12 December 2017 - 03:44 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

Vellron2005, on 12 December 2017 - 02:02 AM, said:

Taking this away from them by nerfing the ark is like making gauss not do critical hits

Actually Critical Hits and Critical Damage from Gauss Rifles where nerfed a few months ago:

Quote

Gauss Rifles (IS and Clan)
• Gauss Rifles now only provide a single Critical Hit.
• Critical Damage Dealt reduced by 50%.

https://mwomercs.com...14107-21mar2017

[Khobai]

Quote

Someone else's tag works for indirect fire (like narc) but you would have to direct fire if you're going to tag for yourself. Either way, PGI made the changes in the Oct patch because they didn't want people bending missile shots.

Yeah and my point was players shouldnt have to missile bend in the first place. Explosive weapons should punch through trees, buildings, rocks, etc...

LRMs will never be taken seriously until terrain is destructible. Invincible terrain makes it too easy to dodge them.

Instead of making crappy 1v1 maps for solaris they should be doing destructability passes on all the maps making everything as destructable as possible (at least trees and buildings and some rocks). Even Mechwarrior 3 had destructible terrain/buildings 18 years ago...

Quote

I'm pretty sure nerfing "bending" was exactly what PGI wanted to do, as described in Oct patch notes (they mention nerfing bending for ATMs, but its the same for LRMS):

It was intended specifically to nerf ATMs.

but inadvertently nerfed all lockon missiles.

however people shouldnt need to bend ATMs (or LRMs for that matter) around buildings, they should blow up buildings.

Edited by Khobai, 12 December 2017 - 04:23 AM.

[Kroete]

Vxheous, on 12 December 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure nerfing "bending" was exactly what PGI wanted to do, as described in Oct patch notes (they mention nerfing bending for ATMs, but its the same for LRMS):

What pgi did was that you need to stay more back to hit enemys behind obstacles,
because you cant bend over or around them.

Next time if someone crys about back standing lrm-users, just say:
PGI want them to stay back, because the removed the option to stay with you and still hit enemys.

Edited by Kroete, 12 December 2017 - 04:20 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Kroete, on 12 December 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

Next time if someone crys about standing back lrm-users, just say:
PGI want them to stay back, because the removed the option to stay with you and still hit enemys.

They removed LoS for LRMs? When?

[Kroete]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 December 2017 - 04:20 AM, said:

They removed LoS for LRMs? When?

They nerfed the los upgrade (artemis) of lrms in the same patch.

For direct fire there are better options then lrms.
LRMS have a lot of disadvantages over all other weapons, because they can be used indirect.

[Khobai]

People were using artemis too much with SRMs. they wanted people to use artemis less with SRMs.

thats why they nerfed artemis.

but it also nerfed everything else that uses artemis like LRMs... and artemis was already arguably not worth it except on the biggest LRM launchers.

[braveheart95]

So they nerfed artemis because folks were using it too much?! Its not exactly a free upgrade, as you are paying for it with cbills and slots....... I guess they want folks to spend their cbills elsewhere......