37 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

A few years ago after some lurmaggedons, nerfs, more nerfs, and some soft/hard counters, the LRM5 was the king:



But now, after so many changes cooldown/spread, which is the best lrm launcher?

Cheers!

Edited by Gattsus, 15 December 2017 - 12:24 AM.

[Iain Sumner]

LRM 20 is the most effective of course....But I often use LRM10 for efficiency, especially when I want some cheap backups. LRM5 really struggles with Ghost heat...only 15 missiles max without ghost heat.

Edited by Iain Sumner, 15 December 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[SteelMantis]

LRM 5s are bad now because there is a lot more AMS around (also AMS was buffed over the last year) and it eats 5s.

As a primary weapon system go with as many 20s as you can mount with Tag and Artemis. As a back up go for 10s or 20s and you can skip the Tag and Artemis.

[Xetelian]

As far as I'm aware, the LRM5 spam got obliterated by the increase in AMS power. So I have seen people who previously used 6x LRM5s using 4xLRM10s on their MDD. Which will struggle to get through 3+ AMS, so if you spot a KFX or two on the enemy team, either pray they run out of ammo before you do or focus targets out of their bubble.


Or bring 15s/20s

[Daggett]

I think LRM-10 are the most effective on mechs with sufficient (5+) hardpoints. They have the low spread of 5s but with double the punch and are not too hot.

The bigger launchers just have too much spread and since Artemis requires LOS to reduce this there are too many situations where you waste damage. For instance the majority of LRM10 missiles will hit the most prominent component like CT from the front or a ST from the side while LRM15/20 hits everything much more equally. So LRM10 requires the target to twist to avoid getting cored while LRM15/20 always spread like crazy regardless of twisting.

I tried both an LRM10 and an LRM15 Mad Dog, and for me the LRM10 one performed much better despite missing 25pts of alpha damage while also having more tonnage for additional DHS and Ammo.

Edited by Daggett, 15 December 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

The best LRM launcher is the one that isn't used to begin with.

In all seriousness, if you really want to use lurms, your best bet is to sit 350-550m and get DIRECT locks so that your Artemis upgrade actually is worth a damn, or bring your own UAVs and get closer. At that range people will have less time to find a nice rock to make you feel sad about bringing bad weapons. And if you opt to get closer for aggressive UAV placement/sharing armor with your team, bring ATMs instead.

ATM 3s and 6s, and LRM5s, are sad against AMS. Bring the mid size launchers instead.

[Iain Sumner]

Xetelian, on 15 December 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

As far as I'm aware, the LRM5 spam got obliterated by the increase in AMS power. So I have seen people who previously used 6x LRM5s using 4xLRM10s on their MDD. Which will struggle to get through 3+ AMS, so if you spot a KFX or two on the enemy team, either pray they run out of ammo before you do or focus targets out of their bubble.

LRM5 always failed vs even a single AMS. I'm laughing at LRM5 spam for years now...with the dirt cheap Overload and AMS range buffs in summer, even C-LRM10s are close to useless vs. single AMS unless you got 3 of them and alpha them with ghost heat. And LRM20 spread buff a few months ago made the 20 variant superior over 15s.

Edited by Iain Sumner, 15 December 2017 - 04:12 AM.

[WhineyThePoo]

From my very own personal experience, so results may vary from person to person.

The lrm 5 is the most effective so long as the enemy doesn't have AMS. When they have AMS everything sucks but the 15 seem to suck a little less.

[Iain Sumner]

WhineyThePoo, on 15 December 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

The lrm 5 is the most effective

5 dmg@LRM5 vs 20 dmg@LRM20. Learn what "effective" means. Thread starter probably got it wrong too.

[FupDup]

I've always had the non-conformist opinion that the LRM10 and 15 were the most efficient launchers.

The LRM5 used to have good spread and firing rate, sure, but you also suffer from having very low burst damage (alpha strike) and you are forced to take a mech that has a crapton of hardpoints (having only a few LRM5 was and still is useless). There's also the heat nerf from a while ago that makes it dramatically less efficient in that department, and the LRM10 now shares the same spread.

Those special 6-missile mechs (the only ones that could make the LRM5 useful at all) like the Vulture and Cat A1 have massive innate weaknesses to deal with. I'd rather use a smaller quantity of mid-sized launchers so that I can get a good salvo size on virtually any missile-capable mech that has better innate design attributes.

Also note that Artemis becomes more efficient on larger launchers since you aren't paying the +1 slot/ton tax as many times and your spread is receiving a higher benefit since percentages naturally work best with high base values. Lastly, consider that the LRM5 is extremely weak against even a single AMS, much less multiples.

The LRM5 has been massively overrated, and is a classic case of people placing too much value on XML stats rather than practical application.

Edited by FupDup, 15 December 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Daggett]

Iain Sumner, on 15 December 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

5 dmg@LRM5 vs 20 dmg@LRM20. Learn what "effective" means. Thread starter probably got it wrong too.

It's not always the raw damage numbers that defines effectiveness.

In terms of effective damage the LRM10 beats the LRM15 and probably also the LRM20 because of it's tighter spread.
In terms of heat management however the bigger launchers are better.
In terms of tonnage the LRM5 is more effective if you are running a mech with low tonnage but many launchers like the ACW-1.

So of cause 4x LRM20 are overall much more effective than 4x LRM5.

But when you are limited in tonnage and unable to fit 4x LRM20 into your mech with four missile hardpoints it is much more effective to equip 4x LRM10 instead of 2x LRM20 despite both having the same alpha.

And what about 4x LRM5 against a single LRM20? Same alpha, but the LRM5s weight 1 ton less and have much higher DPS while running hotter. Is the LRM20 still more effective in such a case just because it's cooler?

Edited by Daggett, 15 December 2017 - 04:23 AM.

[Iain Sumner]

Daggett, on 15 December 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

It's not always the raw damage numbers that defines effectiveness.

It does. Learn about the difference between effectivity and efficiency.
(german) Hamma doch in der Schule gehabt (/german).

Edited by Iain Sumner, 15 December 2017 - 04:26 AM.

[El Bandito]

Stopped using LRM5s ever since its spread got nerfed to that of LRM10. Eff that.

[WhineyThePoo]

Iain Sumner, on 15 December 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

5 dmg@LRM5 vs 20 dmg@LRM20. Learn what "effective" means. Thread starter probably got it wrong too.

Effective=Producing the intended or expected result.

The OP was asking for the best launcher, the lrm 5 is the best launcher for me. So it is producing the intended result, so its the most effective.


also...
Titta på mig jag är så speciell för jag kan fler språk än engelska!
woopdifuckingdoo...

[Daggett]

Iain Sumner, on 15 December 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

It does. Learn about the difference between effectivity and efficiency.
(german) Hamma doch in der Schule gehabt (/german).

Ahh, c'mon.
Everyone knows what the OP meant with effectiveness even if it's not the correct term.

It's the same as the term 'invisible walls' everyone uses here to describe non-matching bounding boxes in the terrain. If you don't want to spend lots of time explaining stuff to only 1% who is interested you sometimes have to adjust to the audience.

In my job for example i use the correct terms when talking to colleagues with the same profession but not necessarily when talking with foreign departments or customers who don't care for the details.

(german) Meine Schulzeit ist schon verdammt lang her... (/german).

Edited by Daggett, 15 December 2017 - 04:47 AM.

[Bombast]

As far as I know, the most 'effective' LRM launcher is still the smallest one you can boat (Determined by hardpoint) that will get you the missiles you need without exploding. If you have enough hardpoints get to that number with LRM5s, thats the one. Than 10s, and so on.

IS side, I think the LRM15A is the best launcher, mostly because of the space it sits in. The upper end of medium/lower end of heavies is where you 'should' LRM, and the tonnage/hardpoints usually work out to dual 15s.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

they should just add the long tom cannon or the other arty cannons~ =P

I haven't touched lrms since the last heat/spread nerf then again I've been using pretty much nothing but srms and streaks(I really like srm/streak maddogs for some reason~ that and huntsman) an heavy gauss since (dual hg on mauler~)

lrms while not useless are in a extremely bad spot

but I'd have to say 10 for spread or 20s if you want to get around ghost heat and still carry alot

Edited by CuriousCabbitBlue, 15 December 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

LRM10 for Mediums, LRM15 for Heavies, and Assaults though an Assault I feel is wasted as a LRM platform

Lights just no..

[jss78]

LRM5 stream fire spam is definitely gone, which is probably a good thing. I think it's a combined effect of PGI upping the AMS damage, and people also running AMS more as a result.

Even with the 2xLRM10 Hunchie-J it's increasingly common to see situations where your salvos barely make it through AMS.

Go big or go home, it seems. Probably go home is the better idea.

[Mystere]

Snazzy Dragon, on 15 December 2017 - 02:35 AM, said:

The best LRM launcher is the one that isn't used to begin with.

In all seriousness, if you really want to use lurms ...

Can folks please stop pontificating against LRMs? If people want to use them, then so be it. Sheesh!

Edited by Mystere, 15 December 2017 - 08:29 AM.