95 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

November11th, on 15 December 2017 - 11:29 PM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors.

How would all of you feel if there was a PSR/Teir wipe, in which everyone is given a clean slate and then given the opportunity to again climb their way through the rankings once again?

I've been giving some thoughts as to how to cleans the higher rankings of potatos and putting legacy (133t) potatos back where they belong with the rest of the spuds. That may sound incredibly elitist, but hear me out; I just want to make any given random pug unit assembled by the match maker in QP some better cohesion by allowing players of actual skill level to be actually placed among their peers.

I'm really tired of being dropped into matches where 2-5 of the players on my side are either suicidal lone wolves (looking at you cheeta players) or stationary missile/laser/gauss platforms. (if your going to use LRMS, at least do it right and stop giving the rest of us a bad rep. FFS!)... and dont get me started on griefers/tkers that work as teams on both sides.

I like being part of a well coordinated pack of hunters and/or traders, as I'm sure most of you do as well. I feel as if this is our best solution to fixing PSR without actually having to overhaul anything or create major game changes. Let the spuds be spuds, and let the rest of us actually play to win.

What do all of you think? Is it a feasible idea? Is it even a good idea?

OK, I'll play along.....

The way things are currently set up with the whole PSR thing, all it would accomplish is another 6-8 month period of derp hammering to end up where we are right now.

See, the problem with the idea is where the problem with anything involving the game lies....PGI. To date, PGI has shown itself to be completely unable to separate players based on skill or ability. The "original" ELO system was a complete disaster. Not surprising if you remember that it was a temporary band-aid in the first place that just kept getting patched until it was no longer functional. The "new" PSR system simply started off as completely broken and ended up being a simple XP bar.

Until someone, probably not PGI, comes up with a viable system that separates people based on skill level is implemented, you're going to continue to see the whole premise of "the better you are, the more you carry" being what the game is based around. Currently, QP gameplay is just as horrible as FW, which has no matchmaker in the first place. T1s drop with T5s virtually every match.

[knight-of-ni]

In the long term, what would this solve?

Simply resetting one's PSR, and making no other changes to the ranking system, will result in things going right back to the way they were in just a couple months. Then what? Reset everyone yet again?

It was not explicitly stated what tier we would all reset back to, but if we all were put into tier 5 for example, imagine the seal clubbing that would endure for those who currently are in tier 5. The same problem would occur if we all were reset back to tier 3. Existing tier 3 players would suddenly find the game much more difficult.

Trying to "intelligently" put someone into a lower tier based on their stats won't eliminate the problem either. Yes, PGI did it once, but it was a one time necessary evil to initiate the PSR system. Today the circumstances are different.

I get it. The OP doesn't want a bunch of potatoes on his team. I hate that too, but the idea stated to solve the problem will not fix that.

If being part of a well coordinated group of hunters is the goal, then why not be part of a unit? You'll meet like minded people who want the same thing.

[UnofficialOperator]

This is why we need a reset and redo of PSR and MM.

These guys can't even in a P2W mech on their home server...

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 16 December 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[WildeKarde]

I can see the attraction of resetting but any tier system that rewards having the time to go up simply by playing large numbers of games is not going to be a solution. You penalise the players who can't player multiple hours every day more than the bad players who maybe play 12hrs every day

Neither can you base it simply of stats or we'll see players avoiding anything negative affecting their stats in games. The players who won't be the mech who pushes first. When a game looks like getting rolled they'll run/hide. We all can have a run of bad games at times.

Also a 5yr casual players might not be rated very highly but would likely beat a new player if they are in same tier which a reset or multiple resets might end up doing.

To make the games better it's matchmaker who needs to be able to balance skilled pilots vs less skilled pilots beyond an arbitary number being assigned as a tier. There are good and bad players within all tiers.

There are multiple factors to consider in matchmaking:
- Length of time playing game
- Number of games
- Multiple games stats including scores, kills, deaths, damage, assist, kmdd, scouting, spotting, etc.
- Mech including build used and skill nodes unlocked.

They do a simple reset and we'll be back here in 6 or 12 months with the same discussion.

[UnofficialOperator]

I think a lot of you guys talking about a simple reset is missing the point.

There is no need to do a total reset to zero.

We have months of historical data to do another tiering.

They can easily put everyone into their correct tier.

Throw in upwards and downwards mobility in tier rather than how PSR is now and we will see a huge improvement in game experience.

[Mole]

Well... okay I guess... but this idea seems kinda pointless.

[BlueStrat]

UnofficialOperator, on 16 December 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

Throw in upwards and downwards mobility in tier rather than how PSR is now and we will see a huge improvement in game experience.

There should be separate ratings for solo-QP, group-QP, FP, etc because each are different. It's easier and recommended to join groups to advance tiers most efficiently. It's much harder to advance and quite possible to drop in tier if you don't do group drops and play only solo-PUG QP and have a bad streak. IMHO I'd say the player who made it to T1 only playing solo-PUG is a much higher-skilled player on average than one who made T1 mostly dropping in groups.

[Asym]

jss78, on 16 December 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

The best suggestion I have - if playing with "bads" troubles you, get out of QP queue.

This is the answer. Leave QP. Please..... You and your ilk don't belong in the only safe place for new players.

You've destroyed everything else.... Entire teams have left the game. Longtime established players have left the game. Longtime players on the team I am on are now playing "other games" and only drop in for a match to add some MC and the leave to go back where they............are having fun....

"You are reaping what you've sown"........ Please, leave QP and let us average players who have no desire other than to have some fun alone.... Tiers don't matter.....only 1.0 and lower W/L's should be allowed in QP. That is why there is a comp and FP que where those of your ilk can "do your thing".... Good luck there...

[Daggett]

I'm in for a reset if they adjust PSR gains and losses to make it harder to reach and maintain higher Tiers. Otherwise such a reset would only help for a short time and needs to be done regularly which i wouldn't like.

Edited by Daggett, 17 December 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Split pug and group queue stats.

Seed last 3 months of stats based on in queue performance.

8 v 8.

Start over with an Elo system.

Separate Elo for players, mechs and a modifier for weapons.

Soak in the joy.

[KingCobra]

why? what would be the point? the MM lumps everyone together regardless of skill level .mech load out, or tier level?

So no I see no point in doing a tier reset

[Daggett]

UnofficialOperator, on 16 December 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

These guys can't even in a P2W mech on their home server...

While i agree that T1 is full of players who would probably have much more success in lower tiers may i remind you of this specific 12dmg comp player who proved at mechcon that witnessing a single match says absolutely nothing about a player's skill?

And i have even another fact not everyone seem to accept: All mech classes are equally capable of dealing damage!

Assuming that assaults have to do a minimum damage or to become top scorers because they have the most badass weaponry is not correct because they often don't have a chance to get into positions to use this power quickly enough compared to faster mechs.
Quite regularly personal success depends more on the cicumstances than the build or pilot skill.

Nascar for example is such a situation where the best assault player in the world can have a tough time keeping up with the damage without falling behind too much.

I regularly have matches where my team steamrolls so hard that i was unable to keep up even in not-that-slow mechs like a speed-tweaked Hellbringer.

Edited by Daggett, 16 December 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[mistlynx4life]

Please be careful about what you're asking - resetting the tiers without augmenting/replacing the current PSR system is just going to bring us back to the same place.

PSR is really just a measure of consistently reliably high match scores. T1 means those folks, at some point, were getting consistently high enough match scores to shift their PSR all the way up. It's why some people plateau sooner and so on. Match score factors in lots of things but nothing so much as damage and anybody can do damage without working with a team - especially in the lower tiers, where everyone starts out and where new accounts have weighted scores to bring them up out of T5 faster. Hence the T1 Lone Wolf Failhards. Lower population means the MatchMaker has to open up the parameters anyway and folks already seem to lament the wait times.

I don't pretend to know the solution to this but my initial from-the-hip thought is to increase the value of non-damage-based factors in match score (weigh NARC kills, Lance In Formation, etc. more than they are at present... or decrease the damage weight) but I'm just a Lynx pilot. I flies and dies in all the tiers.

[RickySpanish]

I don't care, because I'm not new to the game and I've only played maybe 15 matches since coming back. With that said, spare a thought for the newer folk who will be trampled on by players making their way back up the ladder. Imo, resetting tiers won't have a big effect, most players will end up right back where they are now.

[InvictusLee]

knight-of-ni, on 16 December 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

In the long term, what would this solve?
I get it. The OP doesn't want a bunch of potatoes on his team. I hate that too, but the idea stated to solve the problem will not fix that.

It can be done and long term progress can be effective using historical data!
I'm just spitballing an idea for the sake of the greater good in the hopes of making the game alot better. If you have a mathmatical formula that is going to solve the issue then I am all ears!

Daggett, on 16 December 2017 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm in for a reset i they adjust PSR gains and losses to make it harder to reach and maintain higher Tiers. Otherwise such a reset would only help for a short time and needs to be done regularly which i wouldn't like.

MischiefSC, on 16 December 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Split pug and group queue stats.

Seed last 3 months of stats based on in queue performance.

8 v 8.

Start over with an Elo system.

Separate Elo for players, mechs and a modifier for weapons.

Soak in the joy.

UnofficialOperator, on 16 December 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:

I think a lot of you guys talking about a simple reset is missing the point.

There is no need to do a total reset to zero.

We have months of historical data to do another tiering.

They can easily put everyone into their correct tier.

Throw in upwards and downwards mobility in tier rather than how PSR is now and we will see a huge improvement in game experience.

Lets do all of these things! problem solved!

[sycocys]

Just put Unofficial Operator in T1, and everyone else from 1 in T2.

Then hard lock the drops so T1 only plays T1.

[Brain Cancer]

At this point, they should simply take the records from the past 3 seasons. Give people two Tier rankings: Group and Solo. The two sharing a leaderboard is illogical and silly.

Current season is 50%. Last season is 30%. Season before that is 20%.

Rank people on W/L, then K/D, then match score in that order. Top 20% is T1. Next 20% is T2. Then T3,T4,T5.

Run the MM from there. Show Tier rankings at all times, so we don't get mad because the MM shoved a T4 into a T2 game for some reason and he's not a cooked potato...

[knight-of-ni]

November11th, on 16 December 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

It can be done and long term progress can be effective using historical data!
I'm just spitballing an idea for the sake of the greater good in the hopes of making the game alot better. If you have a mathmatical formula that is going to solve the issue then I am all ears!

Lets do all of these things! problem solved!

Your initial argument was to simply reset one's psr, without changing how the game calculates changes in psr. That is what I was arguing against, because the logical conclusion is that, in time, we end up right back where we started.

You've got to change the whole system, not just reset the user base, in order to get something different.

[Sunstruck]

That would basically be letting T1s get that 12kill acheivement, they would throw a few games to get stuck in the lower Tier and then seal club the hell out of you guys.

[InvictusLee]

Sunstruck, on 17 December 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

That would basically be letting T1s get that 12kill acheivement, they would throw a few games to get stuck in the lower Tier and then seal club the hell out of you guys.

They can try but I wont go down without a fight! xD