95 replies to this topic

[UnofficialOperator]

Brain Cancer, on 18 December 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

it's perfectly fair for "Tier up". He's got a constant supply of marginally skilled (compared to him) target practice to slaughter and rarely has to wait long for a game, as PGI will not only shove endless targets into his rank, it'll even go down two tiers to make sure there's plenty more. The massive positive bias means as many players as possible are put into the same tank as the sharks, regardless of actual fairness. This means the people most likely to feed money hang around- long term players sit in a pool that is refreshed with newbies, regardless of if they learn anything or not.

PGI would much rather sacrifice them than the tryhards buying that $200 set of new robots with every release.

Well you can think of it the other way too.

Not that I believe it but the conspiracy theory is to feed these potatoes to the pilots in the new mechs to "encourage" them potatoes to buy the new mechs too.

Because hey a repackaged mech will totally improve your gameplay no?

[LT. HARDCASE]

Reset tiers, and significant increase the penalty for playing poorly, in win or loss.

The real issue with PSR is that even a 20 match sub 150 match score streak won't put much of a dent in the bar.

[InvictusLee]

Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, on 18 December 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

I didn't read this whole thread but I am completely behind the OPs idea as long as I get to start in Tier 5 again!

I'm hammering my way through potatos to see you godlike ones in tier 1 xD

knight-of-ni, on 17 December 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

You've got to change the whole system, not just reset the user base, in order to get something different.

Sorry I didnt see your comment till just now.
Well honestly, something is better than nothing and it would help improve game-play quality alot.

mistlynx4life, on 17 December 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, is there a way to see how many players there are in each tier?

IT would actually be nice to know the ranking and standing of individual pilots within the tier ranks!
How does a the number one tier 5 potato stack against the lowest tier 4 spud?!
What will happen? French fries? MASHED POTATOS!?! deep fried potato salad?!!!!!1111!! the world may never know!

Edited by November11th, 18 December 2017 - 09:25 PM.

[mistlynx4life]

lol, I mostly just meant how the distribution lies - is it fairly equal across the tiers or are there more in a certain tier than elsewhere. But mashed potatoes sounds good too!

[InvictusLee]

mistlynx4life, on 18 December 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

lol, I mostly just meant how the distribution lies - is it fairly equal across the tiers or are there more in a certain tier than elsewhere. But mashed potatoes sounds good too!

What if... You threw all the bottom rung players from every tier together into one match? Think we'd get a Sheppard pie?

[Brain Cancer]

UnofficialOperator, on 18 December 2017 - 04:40 PM, said:

Well you can think of it the other way too.

Not that I believe it but the conspiracy theory is to feed these potatoes to the pilots in the new mechs to "encourage" them potatoes to buy the new mechs too.

Because hey a repackaged mech will totally improve your gameplay no?

Actually, it's not a bad predictor.

If your team is in a bunch of obsolete oldbots, there's a disturbingly high chance you're gonna lose to the other guys who aren't.

I mean, I had a team that had three Cataphracts- two -1X and a -0XP. They spent most of their match dying in the first minute of contact shooting a hill they couldn't effectively fire over, created a nice 0-3 disadvantage in about 90 seconds, and combined did a total of under 400 damage. Reds rolled through the hole, I got one, another one overheated himself to death, four minutes after that it was 12-2 and game.



There's a reason we don't see a lot of chassis in skilled play anymore. It's at a distinct disadvantage.

[HammerMaster]

Brain Cancer, on 19 December 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

Actually, it's not a bad predictor.

If your team is in a bunch of obsolete oldbots, there's a disturbingly high chance you're gonna lose to the other guys who aren't.

I mean, I had a team that had three Cataphracts- two -1X and a -0XP. They spent most of their match dying in the first minute of contact shooting a hill they couldn't effectively fire over, created a nice 0-3 disadvantage in about 90 seconds, and combined did a total of under 400 damage. Reds rolled through the hole, I got one, another one overheated himself to death, four minutes after that it was 12-2 and game.



There's a reason we don't see a lot of chassis in skilled play anymore. It's at a distinct disadvantage.

This is meta filth trash talk.
So if Lance mates don't bring the latest power creep hard point bloat hill humping high mount Gundam it's THEIR fault by bringing
"OLD BOTs"?
You sir are the problem. This thinking is what is sending (and PGI bloating new and not revising "old bots") us down the plumbing.
Red rubber stamp "Meta APPROVED!" Indeed

Edited by HammerMaster, 19 December 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[Asym]

November11th, on 18 December 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

I'm hammering my way through potatos to see you godlike ones in tier 1 xD

Sorry I didnt see your comment till just now.
Well honestly, something is better than nothing and it would help improve game-play quality alot.

IT would actually be nice to know the ranking and standing of individual pilots within the tier ranks!
How does a the number one tier 5 potato stack against the lowest tier 4 spud?!
What will happen? French fries? MASHED POTATOS!?! deep fried potato salad?!!!!!1111!! the world may never know!

To what end? (seeing rankings)

Look, many of us know we are Potatoes ! We really don't care where we are in any ranking systems: it's non-value added.... We are here for the "fun" of it and nothing more: we'll not see a competition nor would ever consider it; we'll not see a grand and glorious team because there aren't very many left; and, most of us, will not be seen in Solaris 1x1 or 2x2 because we will not be farmed anymore..... So, to what end? Self indulgence? Some narcissistic bend?

I'm almost to the point of thinking that Occam is right: maybe, just leave what we have alone because it's neither good nor bad and in the end, what difference would it make????

Edited by Asym, 19 December 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[Xmith]

A Tier and PSR reset is a non starter. No one in their great wisdom has mentioned anything about what to do for the new players after a reset.

[Bilbo999]

Xmith, on 19 December 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

A Tier and PSR reset is a non starter. No one in their great wisdom has mentioned anything about what to do for the new players after a reset.

They start in tier 5 as always. If the reset is properly seeded with historical data they'll be fine.

[HammerMaster]

Reset with seeding is half stepping. You need the other half of the solution or we are resetting every 6 months.

[Bud Crue]

I don’t know about a reset, but something must be done on at least a going forward basis so as to help get the terribads and the supposed new players away from the more competitive and skilled players.

I am apparently a tier 1 player (I just checked).
That is absurd. No one with my lack of skill should be playing with the likes of EMP, 228, and any and all of the more truly top tier players and units in this game. But here we are. If I end up here, everyone will end up here.

While I have a high tolerance for being beat down in this game, I suspect however that most normal people looking for entertainment and enjoyment in a gaming experience do not. And yet even if they play as poorly as me they will end up in Tier 1, and be regularly smacked around by the likes of the folks who were just in the “world championships”. Effectively throwing little leaguers against the pros. That sucks for everyone invovled but especially for PGI, as the new players perhaps have yet to become new customers. Beat them senseless a few times and they will be gone, never having had any desire to buy a mechpack. Bad for the game and bad for PGI’s business.

Look at the leaderboard population trends. Something must be done to keep and draw folks in, and having a system that near guarantees casuals and even incompetents playing in the same games as the most elite of players is a disservice to them all and assures their mutual discontent and resentment not just towards one another but to the game itself. Failing to address this will insure that those ever slowly decreasing population trends at best remain the same, or worse, steepen.

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 December 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[mistlynx4life]

Does anyone know why damage counts so much more than any other factor? It seems like it's the most reliably requisite factor in winning a match but that hardly justifies weighing it as much as it seems to be at present. Simply adjusting something like the value/weight of factors would start to settle folks where the 'ought' to be, no? Place more weight on Win/Loss maybe, to speed things along?

[Xmith]

Bilbo999, on 19 December 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

They start in tier 5 as always. If the reset is properly seeded with historical data they'll be fine.

OP never mentioned anything about seeding based on historical data. OP is advocating a clean slate with everyone starting at the lowest level. This will harm the new player experience. New players will have a difficult time when there are formally T1 players in the same match.

[Khobai]

Quote

That is absurd. No one with my lack of skill should be playing with the likes of EMP, 228, and any and all of the more truly top tier players and units in this game.

if you can do 12 damage you belong there

[Bilbo999]

Xmith, on 19 December 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

OP never mentioned anything about seeding based on historical data. OP is advocating a clean slate with everyone starting at the lowest level. This will harm the new player experience. New players will have a difficult time when there are formally T1 players in the same match.

Can't argue with that, but I was responding to you not the OP.

[mistlynx4life]

If you reset the tiers and then did the thing where your first matches are weighted to advance you more, like the cadet bonus, veterans would rocket through T5 in a match or two. If you don't actually change the PSR System though, you're going to end at the same place. Resetting it at regular intervals just means more folks will game it and you'll see even less variety at the top.

My question remains though: Why does damage count so much in the current match score calculation? It's one of the reasons you have such a mess.

[Brain Cancer]

HammerMaster, on 19 December 2017 - 07:56 AM, said:

This is meta filth trash talk.
So if Lance mates don't bring the latest power creep hard point bloat hill humping high mount Gundam it's THEIR fault by bringing
"OLD BOTs"?
You sir are the problem. This thinking is what is sending (and PGI bloating new and not revising "old bots") us down the plumbing.
Red rubber stamp "Meta APPROVED!" Indeed

It's not thinking. It's knowing they're underperforming.

Cataphracts were good when there wasn't better available. They are no longer good. Tell me, when was the last time you saw, say a Cataphract-2X?

Some models simply have gotten left behind as newer ones do whatever they did, but better. And some people, even when there's C-bill models out there that do the job better are still plugging away in their scrap heaps. I can understand not spending real money- I'm a F2P type myself. But there's some stuff that just should be quietly sold to clear your Mechbay for better.

[Bilbo999]

mistlynx4life, on 19 December 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

If you reset the tiers and then did the thing where your first matches are weighted to advance you more, like the cadet bonus, veterans would rocket through T5 in a match or two. If you don't actually change the PSR System though, you're going to end at the same place. Resetting it at regular intervals just means more folks will game it and you'll see even less variety at the top.

My question remains though: Why does damage count so much in the current match score calculation? It's one of the reasons you have such a mess.

Simple answer is that it has more effect on win/loss than any other measurable and apparently win/loss wasn't good enough by itself.

[mistlynx4life]

...but if it had more effect on Win/Loss but Win/Loss itself counts less, what's the thinking there? I guess it's weird to me that they'd rave over new modes that can be won without dealing lots of damage (Incursion base damage doesn't even count towards MS) and even bother awarding non-damage factors if they've determined what the primary factor is and are so heavily favoring it in Match Score and rewards.

Edit: I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious as the what the reasoning behind this sort of dynamic might be. It seems terribly inefficient to include these other features if they aren't comparable to dealing damage and it leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

Edited by mistlynx4life, 19 December 2017 - 11:02 AM.